your religion

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

There has to be a some form of deity for it to be a religion.

Buddhism.

Does that even count as a religion?

Yes, if it were not Thailand would be the most atheist country on the planet, which while that would no doubt make opebo love it even more, is not the case.

I could have sworn I've heard of people who were Christian Buddhists.

That's completely contrdictory, due to each's beliefs on life after death.

Sorry; I edited this accidentally.  The last line was not BRTD's words.

[Nym90]

There has to be a some form of deity for it to be a religion.

Buddhism.

Does that even count as a religion?  I could have sworn I've heard of people who were Christian Buddhists.

Ok, I stand corrected. Thanks. Although I guess it often fits definition number 4, though that's not the one being used in this context.

Not really, unless he's a zealous atheist who goes around preaching to everyone, and even then, it's not really a religion in the sense you mean.

It is a religious belief, though. Your intensity of feelings and opinions and the degree of certainty that you have is the same for the most part as those of someone who believes in God. So it doesn't really make sense to me to be strongly anti-religion if one of the reasons for doing so is that you hate the fact that religious people are intolerant...

Holding a belief that relates to religion is rather different than adhering to a religion.

True, it's not the same thing of course. But I guess my point was that people who are passionately in favor of God not existing are in many ways the opposite side of the same coin of people who are passionately in favor of God existing. I view anyone with extreme views on religion who is absolutely 100 percent sure beyond all possible doubt that they are correct and that everyone who doesn't agree with them is stupid/doomed to hell as being a bit ridiculous.

[Speed of Sound]

There has to be a some form of deity for it to be a religion.

Buddhism.

Does that even count as a religion?  I could have sworn I've heard of people who were Christian Buddhists.

Ok, I stand corrected. Thanks. Although I guess it often fits definition number 4, though that's not the one being used in this context.

Not really, unless he's a zealous atheist who goes around preaching to everyone, and even then, it's not really a religion in the sense you mean.

It is a religious belief, though. Your intensity of feelings and opinions and the degree of certainty that you have is the same for the most part as those of someone who believes in God. So it doesn't really make sense to me to be strongly anti-religion if one of the reasons for doing so is that you hate the fact that religious people are intolerant...

Holding a belief that relates to religion is rather different than adhering to a religion.

True, it's not the same thing of course. But I guess my point was that people who are passionately in favor of God not existing are in many ways the opposite side of the same coin of people who are passionately in favor of God existing. I view anyone with extreme views on religion who is absolutely 100 percent sure beyond all possible doubt that they are correct and that everyone who doesn't agree with them is stupid/doomed to hell as being a bit ridiculous.

I agree. Anyone at this point in what we know who can say honestly that they believe they are 100% correct is definetly a little too faithful.

[Ebowed]

But I guess my point was that people who are passionately in favor of God not existing are in many ways the opposite side of the same coin of people who are passionately in favor of God existing.

I don't really know if anyone is "passionately" in favor of God not existing.  People who are atheists tend to just not believe in God.  You don't go to an atheist church, or find atheist missionaries trying to proselytize at your doorstep.

[Gabu]

True, it's not the same thing of course. But I guess my point was that people who are passionately in favor of God not existing are in many ways the opposite side of the same coin of people who are passionately in favor of God existing. I view anyone with extreme views on religion who is absolutely 100 percent sure beyond all possible doubt that they are correct and that everyone who doesn't agree with them is stupid/doomed to hell as being a bit ridiculous.

Sure, I agree with that.  I just don't agree with the notion that atheism is a religion.  A belief relating to God does not a religion make.

[Nym90]

True, it's not the same thing of course. But I guess my point was that people who are passionately in favor of God not existing are in many ways the opposite side of the same coin of people who are passionately in favor of God existing. I view anyone with extreme views on religion who is absolutely 100 percent sure beyond all possible doubt that they are correct and that everyone who doesn't agree with them is stupid/doomed to hell as being a bit ridiculous.

Sure, I agree with that.  I just don't agree with the notion that atheism is a religion.  A belief relating to God does not a religion make.

And after you showed me the definition I agree with that as well.

Kids, see what happens when people use logic?

[Alcon]

And after you showed me the definition I agree with that as well.

Kids, see what happens when people use logic?

Nym, I just want to tell you how much we've all missed you.

I'm an annoying argumentative SOB, and even I sometimes get tired of the dogmatic nature of debate here.  It's always nice to see a post like this that doesn't contain "but."

[Emsworth]

Agnostic atheist.

[Brambila]

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I don’t know you, but I would say that if one did make a serious attempt to find truth, he either would find truth, or would come close and still be included in salvation. However, if one made no attempt, he’s rejecting his consciousness—his “spark”, as St. Basil called it—to discover truth. Everyone longs to find truth—everyone wants to discover if God exists or not, but nobody is certain.

One of the most influential speeches is Joseph Ratzinger’s “Conscience and Truth”. If you actually take the time to read it and try to understand what he's saying, it’s quite good.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/RATZCONS.HTM

[??????????]

I sway between Catholicism and Deism.

[Gabu]

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I don’t know you, but I would say that if one did make a serious attempt to find truth, he either would find truth, or would come close and still be included in salvation. However, if one made no attempt, he’s rejecting his consciousness—his “spark”, as St. Basil called it—to discover truth. Everyone longs to find truth—everyone wants to discover if God exists or not, but nobody is certain.

I would wager that I've had more sessions of introspection and the searching for truth than your average Joe.  As a student of the sciences, I hold truth as one of the most important - if not the most important - items in existence.  I am deeply interested in the topics of the supernatural, life after death, the existence of God, and any other sorts of topics along those lines.  It is for that reason that it is most troubling for me to hear the notion that I am going to hell for not holding the "right" belief.  I'm not like other non-Christians in that I am in no way completely confident of my beliefs, and in that I honestly do consider the possibility that the notion of "believe or suffer eternal tormet" to be true.  I honestly am scared of the idea of dying and finding out that I'm going to hell.  I've even gone so far as to lead myself through the motions giving of converting to Christianity as an attempt to "make sure".

The problem is that it doesn't work.  As one adept in recognizing and avoiding logical fallacies, I know all to well that "believe or be punished" is one of the most logically unsound attempts to justify an assertion under the sun.  It offers no justification for its statement whatsoever, nor does it offer any evidence, nor does it offer any reason at all to believe the statement to be true.

The point that I'm at right now is basically simply an acceptance of the way things are.  I still don't believe everything contained within the Bible.  I still consider the possibility that I will go to hell for not believing everything contained within the Bible.  The difference is that it doesn't really bother me anymore.  I know full well that I will likely never be able to believe everything contained within the Bible.  Therefore, I am left with only two options: either the notion that I will go to hell is wrong, or I am simply not good enough for God.  And quite frankly, I've come to terms with this, and am prepared for either option, because I have become more and more convinced that there is not a thing in the world that I can do to change anything in this realm.  I can't force myself to actually believe something to be true purely because I'm being threatened with consequences for not doing so.

Personally, I feel that I've come as far as I can in my search for truth, barring any further injection of previously unknown facts.  I have logically stepped through everything I know and have reached the point at which I simply do not have enough information to go further; as such, I am forced to simply lay down the possibilities that are left and accept any of them as being potentially true.  I don't know what else one can do.

One of the most influential speeches is Joseph Ratzinger’s “Conscience and Truth”. If you actually take the time to read it and try to understand what he's saying, it’s quite good.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/RATZCONS.HTM

I unfortunately don't really have the time right now to read through something that is that long, as I'm doing other stuff, but I'll bookmark it for some other time, as it looks interesting.

[Brambila]

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The problem with your thinking is this: faith goes beyond science. Science describes our world—it doesn’t describe God’s. That’s why we have philosophy to discover truth beyond science. We look into the deepest depths of our mind in order to discover the truth that is there. Why do we want to live? Why do we exist? Why is there existence? These questions linger in our heads not just because we’re rational beings, but because we have truth embedded within us. That is why we long for truth. We have, as Saint Basil says, a “spark” to discover truth.

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You are very much correct. It’s often tempting to have faith out of fear of hell. But this can’t let you stop discovering truth, because that is your entire point in life. We distract ourselves with temporary pleasures, especially in the last half of the 20th century where we have television, computers, sex, and drugs prevailing everywhere. A further danger is that we try to defend our bad habits into these things by justifying them, trying to tell people that these things are good because they make us happy—but in reality, they only temporarily make us happy, and have no capabilities of filling the void that is within us. The only thing that can fill this void is Truth, as that is what will bring us happy. Our bodies are only temporary—they are separated from us when we die, but the conscience goes on forever. We need to separate ourselves from these temporary pleasures and do what we human persons are born to do—discovering truth. That is our essence; that’s why we exist in the first place. 

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Take it one step at a time. Don’t read the bible and expect to believe it all. Seek truth. Make an honest attempt. Read those links—especially the Apology. They will be very helpful.

[ian]

Believe in G-d, follow the customs and traditions of Judaism, but have my qualms about the bible and if it is G-d's word or some guy's words.

[Nym90]

And after you showed me the definition I agree with that as well.

Kids, see what happens when people use logic?

Nym, I just want to tell you how much we've all missed you.

I'm an annoying argumentative SOB, and even I sometimes get tired of the dogmatic nature of debate here.  It's always nice to see a post like this that doesn't contain "but."

Thanks Alcon. Coming from you, that really means a lot to me.

[Tender Branson]

I´m an agnostic Roman-Catholic-Born-Christian, like most people here ;-)

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

I was raised catholic but as you can tell it didn't take