Should police unions be banned?

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I actually dislike a lot the main police union of Spain (JUSAPOL) due to their ties to the far right, and I also disagree with their main policy demand that national police earn the same as regional police (the regional governments could just increase salaries again).

Do regionsl officers make more than national officers? I woulf have expected the opposite.

Yep. I suppose it is partially due to the few regions with regional police wanting them to be more content than the average Spanish policeman or something due to nationalism in part. But overall the devolved police forces (the Basque Ertzaintza and the Catalan Mossos d'Esquadra) earn more than the national police forces (the Policia Nacional and Guardia Civil).

The difference is not massive, but it exists. Here is a quick comparison of salaries for similar agents:

Policia Nacional (Spanish police): 1650€/month
Guardia Civil (Spanish police): 1450€/month in the mainland
Mossos d'Esquadra (Catalan police): 1800€/month
Ertzaintza (Basque police): 1800€/month

These are the base salaries before adjusting for seniority and other factors so I suppose maybe the benefits are also a bit higher.

The difference between the PN and GC is basically where they operate. For the people familiar with them, it is the same difference as the French Gendarmerie vs Police or the Italian Carabinieri vs Polizia.

Basically, the Guardia Civil is a pseudo-militarized police force operating in rural areas, while the Policia Nacional is a more conventional force operating in cities.

I will also note that in Catalonia/Basque Country, the regional police outright replaces the national police forces for most purposes. The GC still is in charge of some niche things like border controls and customs, but I think the PN is outright-non existent in those 2 regions.

Ah. Very interesting. In the US as you probably know, police are broken down to the town and city level (with different PDs even for college campuses). I guess I had imagined that in Spain there would be regional police for each subdivision (sort of like state police?) and that national police would be more prestigious. In the context you describe, however, I guess higher-paid regional police for "distinctive" area of the country that would make sense.

[lfromnj]

Torn. Police Teachers' unions only really seem to exist to protect the "bad apples" while gouging cities for extreme budgets, but the idea of banning any union doesn't sit well with me.

ftfy lol

Like fine you want to talk about what the police unions can do with regards to their monopoly on state violence? ok but teacher unions can still do just as much in certain states with regards to funding.

And lets not forget that teachers also have the incredibly powerful loco parentis.

[Former President tack50]

I actually dislike a lot the main police union of Spain (JUSAPOL) due to their ties to the far right, and I also disagree with their main policy demand that national police earn the same as regional police (the regional governments could just increase salaries again).

Do regionsl officers make more than national officers? I woulf have expected the opposite.

Yep. I suppose it is partially due to the few regions with regional police wanting them to be more content than the average Spanish policeman or something due to nationalism in part. But overall the devolved police forces (the Basque Ertzaintza and the Catalan Mossos d'Esquadra) earn more than the national police forces (the Policia Nacional and Guardia Civil).

The difference is not massive, but it exists. Here is a quick comparison of salaries for similar agents:

Policia Nacional (Spanish police): 1650€/month
Guardia Civil (Spanish police): 1450€/month in the mainland
Mossos d'Esquadra (Catalan police): 1800€/month
Ertzaintza (Basque police): 1800€/month

These are the base salaries before adjusting for seniority and other factors so I suppose maybe the benefits are also a bit higher.

The difference between the PN and GC is basically where they operate. For the people familiar with them, it is the same difference as the French Gendarmerie vs Police or the Italian Carabinieri vs Polizia.

Basically, the Guardia Civil is a pseudo-militarized police force operating in rural areas, while the Policia Nacional is a more conventional force operating in cities.

I will also note that in Catalonia/Basque Country, the regional police outright replaces the national police forces for most purposes. The GC still is in charge of some niche things like border controls and customs, but I think the PN is outright-non existent in those 2 regions.

Ah. Very interesting. In the US as you probably know, police are broken down to the town and city level (with different PDs even for college campuses). I guess I had imagined that in Spain there would be regional police for each subdivision (sort of like state police?) and that national police would be more prestigious. In the context you describe, however, I guess higher-paid regional police for "distinctive" area of the country that would make sense.

Well, I will note that we do have local police forces as well. Their salaries and what not vary wildly of course. (We do not have campus police to my knowledge though)

And indeed national police are more prestigious than local police. Of course as expected, the few national police that do remain in Catalonia/Basque Country are indeed a point of contention with nationalists from those regions

[Battista Minola 1616]

"I love all unions expect the police unions because cops are a gang of racist people" strikes me as another way of saying:
"I don't give a peep about unions per se. If they are aligned with the left they're in my ingroup and everything is fine. If they are aligned with the right they're in my outgroup and I'll have less tolerance for them than Jerry Falwell had for gays"

[Suburbia]

They need to be heavily curtailed.

They have too much power and they are hindering reforms nationally, especially in NY

[Ferguson97]

Any attempt to ban them would eventually be used by rightists for "both sides" attacks on unions representing firefighters, EMT's, Park Service employees, etc.

The right is going to target real unions with full force regardless of if we allow terrorist gangs legal legitimacy or not.

Yes. Cops aren't workers.

On what basis do you justify this claim?

Their interests are diametrically opposed to those of the working class. You may as well argue CEOs are workers too.

Of course CEOs are workers what are you talking about

If you have a job you're a worker

That said, abolish police unions

[John Dule]

Yes, all public sector unions should be banned.

[Kingpoleon]

"I love all unions expect the police unions because cops are a gang of racist people" strikes me as another way of saying:
"I don't give a peep about unions per se. If they are aligned with the left they're in my ingroup and everything is fine. If they are aligned with the right they're in my outgroup and I'll have less tolerance for them than Jerry Falwell had for gays"

American unions do advocate for better standards and higher wage in a fair and competitive way, and they are a much better alternative to the government acting as a union and enforcing fair wages and standards. I commend them for that.

But when an organization’s only priority is defending their own, that leads to tribalism. Unions oppose accountability, and they protect bad workers. You can’t blame them for this - it’s in their nature. Corporations with the sole priority of money exploit their workers for the same reason - when you have one goal with no exceptions, you’re going to end up doing some very nasty things.