Opinion of cistem7

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

We already have a thread for this. And he isn't worth an opinion thread, let alone two.

Of course he's worth a thread.  People who don't believe that Israel doesn't have the right to exist, even within its 1967 borders (and his screen name clearly implies this) is anti-Jewish on its face.

Check your double negatives.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Voted ff because I thought you were talking about a statement not a forum account, I retract my vote now because I do not know enough about said forum account to vote either ff or hp.

[Sir Mohamed]

Major HP. Trolling of the worst kind.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

We already have a thread for this. And he isn't worth an opinion thread, let alone two.

Of course he's worth a thread.  People who don't believe that Israel doesn't have the right to exist, even within its 1967 borders (and his screen name clearly implies this) is anti-Jewish on its face.

No, it isn’t...or rather, it doesn’t have to be although it certainly can be (confused yet ).  I don’t literally know who the poster you mentioned even is and he may well be anti-Semitic, but anti-Israel =/= anti-Semitic (except when it does...more on that in a sec).  Is anti-Israel rhetoric often used as an anti-Semitic dog whistle by the BDS crowd?  Absolutely, in fact, it’s one of Omar and Tlaib’s favorite dog whistles and that is when it becomes anti-Semitic (several maroon avatars do this all the time; they know who they are).  However, while some anti-Israel rhetoric is anti-Semitic (Atlas being particularly prone to that sort of thing), simply believing the land shouldn’t be entirely controlled by a Jewish government isn’t automatically anti-Semitic (although the line gets exceedingly thin and saying Israel has no right to exist in any form is low key anti-Semitic b/c of the implication that Jews are inherently unworthy of having our own nation).  

Take Sawx, I don’t think (nor have I ever thought that) he has an anti-Semitic bone in his body based on our interactions over the years, but he’s also very anti-Israel (to the point that his intensity has caught me off guard every once in a while) and has in the past vocally defended some folks I consider anti-Semites.  However, you have to look at what’s in the person’s heart and if it isn’t hate, then that makes all the difference.  Sawx just happens to have different views on Israel and that’s fine.  OTOH, Omar and Tlaib are pretty clearly motivated by such a deep seated anti-Semitism that they can’t even keep a lid on it in public.  It’s like how Dr. Strangelove’s hand keeps jutting up into a Nazi salute, they just can’t help themselves.  Clyburn is less vocal, but he’s another who seems to have real hatred in his heart.  

OTOH, I still give AOC and Keith Ellison the benefit of the doubt on the anti-Semitism question b/c while I have concerns about them, they haven’t (AFAIK) actually said anything anti-Semitic despite having some really bad friends.  And then you have folks like Bonnie Watson Coleman and Bernie Sanders’ campaign manager who sit almost right on the line [between anti-Israel and anti-Semitic], but I always try to give such people the benefit of the doubt so that when I say someone or something is anti-Semitic, people know it’s not just a weaponized term I’m casually tossing around to shut down a debate.  Maybe folks won’t agree with me, but you’ll at least get open-minded folks like Badger who stop and ask in good-faith what I’m basing my assertion on.

Just to be clear, I don’t mean this as a “gotcha” or even as a “stop goysplaining” thing.  However, I do think that it is more important than ever to point out the actual distinction since misapplying the term “anti-Semitic” makes it easier for real anti-Semites like Ilhan Omar to hide behind the “I’m just anti-Israel” BS.  The poster you’re talking about may well be anti-Semitic and I think my credentials as both a vocal supporter of Israel and someone who wastes no time calling out anti-Semitic posts are as good as almost anyone’s on Atlas, but simply opposing the 1967 boundaries is not automatically anti-Semitic.  Context matters, as does the character, attitude, and history of the person using it.  I say this as someone who truly believes God gave that land to the Jewish people, but that’s the point: other people may have different beliefs and that’s fine.  The problem is when other people disagree because they simply hate Jews or are simply blinded by their subconscious prejudices.  Hopefully that all made sense

TL;DR: Is what Fuzzy described anti-Semitic?  It depends, but that’s an impossible question to answer without more background and contextual information about the poster than I have atm.  But either way, this is a more complex issue than it might appear at first glance.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

While considering opposing to the Israeli policies and supporting Palestinians having their own country as anti-semitic is beyond idiotic, the claim that "all Palestine (as definied by the borders of a former British mandate) is occupied" implies Israel should not exist, which, given its character as a Jewish nation state, certainly borders on anti-semitism.

[Ilhan Apologist]

While considering opposing to the Israeli policies and supporting Palestinians having their own country as anti-semitic is beyond idiotic, the claim that "all Palestine (as definied by the borders of a former British mandate) is occupied" implies Israel should not exist, which, given its character as a Jewish nation state, certainly borders on anti-semitism.

Not necessarily. You can acknowledge that Jews are a persecuted minority, but disagree that the solution is to put a Jewish-only state in the middle of an established Arab nation (which is exactly what the Balfour Declaration did).

Edit: that said, Cistem is an HP troll, and I'm convinced he's actually extremely pro-Israel and trying to make pro-Palestinians look bad. As for the statement, I see where it's coming from but I don't think it's any more useful than saying "all of the US is occupied territory."

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I honestly thought his username was "cistern", and was willing to commend him for truth in advertising, given the contents of his posts.

[Wazza [INACTIVE]]

FF for providing more diversity of opinion on the forum, and a better poster than half of the shockers over at USGD.

[Kizzuwanda]

He's our newest unrelenting anti-Semite.  HP.

Based on his screen name, he believes that Israel has no right to exist, even under 1967 borders.  That ought to say something.  As for me, Zionism is Necessary, and he's one of the people that make that so.

How could I be an "anti-semite" when I voted for Jill Stein? Anyway, I support an authoritarian Arab Socialist state encompassing all of historic Palestine, with a full automatic right of return for all Palestinians.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

He's our newest unrelenting anti-Semite.  HP.

Based on his screen name, he believes that Israel has no right to exist, even under 1967 borders.  That ought to say something.  As for me, Zionism is Necessary, and he's one of the people that make that so.

How could I be an "anti-semite" when I voted for Jill Stein? Anyway, I support an authoritarian Arab Socialist state encompassing all of historic Palestine, with a full automatic right of return for all Palestinians.

Yeezus.

[Ilhan Apologist]

He's our newest unrelenting anti-Semite.  HP.

Based on his screen name, he believes that Israel has no right to exist, even under 1967 borders.  That ought to say something.  As for me, Zionism is Necessary, and he's one of the people that make that so.

How could I be an "anti-semite" when I voted for Jill Stein? Anyway, I support an authoritarian Arab Socialist state encompassing all of historic Palestine, with a full automatic right of return for all Palestinians.

Yup. Definitely a sock.

[Kizzuwanda]

He's our newest unrelenting anti-Semite.  HP.

Based on his screen name, he believes that Israel has no right to exist, even under 1967 borders.  That ought to say something.  As for me, Zionism is Necessary, and he's one of the people that make that so.

How could I be an "anti-semite" when I voted for Jill Stein? Anyway, I support an authoritarian Arab Socialist state encompassing all of historic Palestine, with a full automatic right of return for all Palestinians.

Yup. Definitely a sock.

The mods are already checked the IP and disproved the "sock" allegations.

[lfromnj]

Calling VPN probably.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Calling VPN probably.

From within the PRC?