Anyone else tired of the constant Democratic bickering over the 2016 primary?

[James Monroe]

Also labeling anyone who disagrees with you on giving away everything for free as a right-wing Wall Street shill is not going to win you a nationwide election.

Labelling modest social-democratic proposals as "giving away everything for free!" absolutely makes you a right-winger, yes.

Opposing radical proposals doesn't make you a right-winger, it makes you a realistic and pragmatic person. When the man proposing free college can't explain where the money going to come from, it's time to shipped to a more steady economic plan that will benefit the working class of this nation.

[Rookie Yinzer]

I would like some of the more "progressive" posters on this forum to realize that criticizing Bernie Sanders does not make one a brainless Hillary bot.

Also labeling anyone who disagrees with you on giving away everything for free as a right-wing Wall Street shill is not going to win you a nationwide election.

This is one of the major complaints I had with a lot of the Bernie supporters I knew, and a little bit with Bernie himself. I agreed with some (but certainly not all) of parts of his platform, and thought seriously about voting for him on Super Tuesday, but I decided at the end of the day that he wouldn't be an effective force for enacting well thought-out policy. I have some progressive tendencies but I also really value pragmatism. The thing that bothered me about die-hard Bernie supporters was they equated people who valued pragmatism, the rigorous critique of policy and appreciation of nuance with being ideologically opposed to them. Combine this antagonism with the incredible sense of self-righteous moral superiority that a lot of liberals have and it makes them really unpleasant to talk with sometimes (yes, I recognize that there are a lot of Clinton supporters who are also self-righteous and combative so spare me your "both sides do it!"). I would have much more faith in a Liz Warren-type Democrat as President than Bernie, but because I criticized Bernie for being really unrealistic, I got labelled by a lot of Bernie supporters I knew (including good friends) as a DINO, enemy of the working class, neoliberal shill, etc. And by the tenth time I got one of those comments it really got to me I started to get combative.

This post describes how I felt about the 2016 primaries so well. Great post! I truly considered Sanders for a brief period after the Iowa caucus was a virtual tie but at the end I knew he couldn't get his policies enacted and his propensity for expecting "all or nothing" from other politicians just made a Sanders presidency unpalatable to me. I did not want to vote for Hillary Clinton. She was not my first, second, or third choice but it was either her, who I knew could work with a fractured Congress, or Sanders who would have been a massive liability after he disillusioned his voters he promised so many ideas and policies to.

I agree about Liz Warren. She and Sherrod Brown are candidates I feel would be extraordinary nominees and can appeal to the concerns of some Bernie voters while still be palatable to mainstream Democrats and pragmatists.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I would like some of the more "progressive" posters on this forum to realize that criticizing Bernie Sanders does not make one a brainless Hillary bot.

Also labeling anyone who disagrees with you on giving away everything for free as a right-wing Wall Street shill is not going to win you a nationwide election.

This is one of the major complaints I had with a lot of the Bernie supporters I knew, and a little bit with Bernie himself. I agreed with some (but certainly not all) of parts of his platform, and thought seriously about voting for him on Super Tuesday, but I decided at the end of the day that he wouldn't be an effective force for enacting well thought-out policy. I have some progressive tendencies but I also really value pragmatism. The thing that bothered me about die-hard Bernie supporters was they equated people who valued pragmatism, the rigorous critique of policy and appreciation of nuance with being ideologically opposed to them. Combine this antagonism with the incredible sense of self-righteous moral superiority that a lot of liberals have and it makes them really unpleasant to talk with sometimes (yes, I recognize that there are a lot of Clinton supporters who are also self-righteous and combative so spare me your "both sides do it!"). I would have much more faith in a Liz Warren-type Democrat as President than Bernie, but because I criticized Bernie for being really unrealistic, I got labelled by a lot of Bernie supporters I knew (including good friends) as a DINO, enemy of the working class, neoliberal shill, etc. And by the tenth time I got one of those comments it really got to me I started to get combative.

This post describes how I felt about the 2016 primaries so well. Great post! I truly considered Sanders for a brief period after the Iowa caucus was a virtual tie but at the end I knew he couldn't get his policies enacted and his propensity for expecting "all or nothing" from other politicians just made a Sanders presidency unpalatable to me. I did not want to vote for Hillary Clinton. She was not my first, second, or third choice but it was either her, who I knew could work with a fractured Congress, or Sanders who would have been a massive liability after he disillusioned his voters he promised so many ideas and policies to.

I agree about Liz Warren. She and Sherrod Brown are candidates I feel would be extraordinary nominees and can appeal to the concerns of some Bernie voters while still be palatable to mainstream Democrats and pragmatists.

Bernie got more amendments passed in the 1995-2006 Republican controlled House than any other representative. Just because he's been attacked repeatedly for being some ideologue who isn't pragmatic to get anything actually done doesn't mean that there's any truth to that claim.

[Celebi]

Democrats need to have this fight. If there's any hope for passing economically left-wing policies like universal healthcare and tuition free college there's need to be strong "green tea party". Establishment Democrats need to realize that either they will give to progressive wing of the party something substantial or they're going to lose another election. It's the only way. As bad as Trump is Clinton presidency would be far more disastrous in the long term.

[publicunofficial]

The two-party system forces two ideologically similar but fundamentally opposed ideologies, socialism and liberalism, into one big tent. This hasn't been a problem in the past as socialism became a dirty word for multiple decades, but as Cold War memories fade and inequality between the top and bottom gets worse and worse, the socialist wing is going to keep growing and will fight for control and direction with the liberal wing.

This fight isn't going to fade anytime soon, in fact it may only just be beginning.

[Rookie Yinzer]

I would like some of the more "progressive" posters on this forum to realize that criticizing Bernie Sanders does not make one a brainless Hillary bot.

Also labeling anyone who disagrees with you on giving away everything for free as a right-wing Wall Street shill is not going to win you a nationwide election.

This is one of the major complaints I had with a lot of the Bernie supporters I knew, and a little bit with Bernie himself. I agreed with some (but certainly not all) of parts of his platform, and thought seriously about voting for him on Super Tuesday, but I decided at the end of the day that he wouldn't be an effective force for enacting well thought-out policy. I have some progressive tendencies but I also really value pragmatism. The thing that bothered me about die-hard Bernie supporters was they equated people who valued pragmatism, the rigorous critique of policy and appreciation of nuance with being ideologically opposed to them. Combine this antagonism with the incredible sense of self-righteous moral superiority that a lot of liberals have and it makes them really unpleasant to talk with sometimes (yes, I recognize that there are a lot of Clinton supporters who are also self-righteous and combative so spare me your "both sides do it!"). I would have much more faith in a Liz Warren-type Democrat as President than Bernie, but because I criticized Bernie for being really unrealistic, I got labelled by a lot of Bernie supporters I knew (including good friends) as a DINO, enemy of the working class, neoliberal shill, etc. And by the tenth time I got one of those comments it really got to me I started to get combative.

This post describes how I felt about the 2016 primaries so well. Great post! I truly considered Sanders for a brief period after the Iowa caucus was a virtual tie but at the end I knew he couldn't get his policies enacted and his propensity for expecting "all or nothing" from other politicians just made a Sanders presidency unpalatable to me. I did not want to vote for Hillary Clinton. She was not my first, second, or third choice but it was either her, who I knew could work with a fractured Congress, or Sanders who would have been a massive liability after he disillusioned his voters he promised so many ideas and policies to.

I agree about Liz Warren. She and Sherrod Brown are candidates I feel would be extraordinary nominees and can appeal to the concerns of some Bernie voters while still be palatable to mainstream Democrats and pragmatists.

Bernie got more amendments passed in the 1995-2006 Republican controlled House than any other representative. Just because he's been attacked repeatedly for being some ideologue who isn't pragmatic to get anything actually done doesn't mean that there's any truth to that claim.

Let's say he does work well with Congress. I am all but sure he would alienate a strong segment of his voters. I don't think he was very realistic with his claims--- maybe that would have changed once he got to the General election and needed to appeal to voters outside the Democrat electorate. Either way he is just not my preferred choice. That's life. No need to demonized others.

[President Johnson]

Yes, especially Berniebros are obsessed. I'm not fan Hillary either and never thought she was a great candidate. We should leave 2016 behind us a focus on a winning strategy for 2018 and 2020.

What's really needed are pragmatic solutions and a clear message for Democrats. Although Trump is a complete failure, being only against him is not enough to make the party great again. However, I do believe that the differences on the issues between the factions are not as big as some suggest.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Also labeling anyone who disagrees with you on giving away everything for free as a right-wing Wall Street shill is not going to win you a nationwide election.

Labelling modest social-democratic proposals as "giving away everything for free!" absolutely makes you a right-winger, yes.

Opposing radical proposals doesn't make you a right-winger, it makes you a realistic and pragmatic person. When the man proposing free college can't explain where the money going to come from, it's time to shipped to a more steady economic plan that will benefit the working class of this nation.

In a nation that has a habit of ignoring the cost when buying more military hardware and giving more corporate handouts suddenly becoming a miser when it comes time to deal with public benefits is rather suspect.

[elcorazon]

It's over guys, OVER! So is the 2016 general election, by the way. They ended on July 12 and November 9, last year, respectively. I'm sick of the constant bickering among Democrats of the "Bernie camp" and "Hillary camp." It's time to get over yourselves. If you have a substantive issue, that's one thing, but if it's related to the Bernie vs. Hillary contest, I don't really give a crap.

I agree. I'm sick of the Bernie Bros!