Do you agree with this argument that Biden is a better president than Obama?
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  Do you agree with this argument that Biden is a better president than Obama?
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Author Topic: Do you agree with this argument that Biden is a better president than Obama?  (Read 854 times)
Alben Barkley
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« on: November 26, 2022, 09:07:32 AM »

Found on reddit:

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I think it's fair to say that Joe Biden is a better president than Barack Obama

Far too few people — especially liberals — acknowledge how weak America's recovery was after the financial crisis of 2008. (And for what it's worth, I am a Democrat.) The unemployment wouldn't fall to its pre-recession level until 2016. So the full recovery really took eight years. But it didn't have to be this way. [While the Recovery Act of 2009 provided a stimulus of $800 billion, the economy really needed more like $2 trillion.](https://theweek.com/articles/450788/obamas-stimulus-succeeded--even-small) And Obama didn't try too hard to get a larger stimulus through; he could have vetoed proposals he found too small.

On the other hand, Biden also entered office during an ongoing crisis. He signed the American Rescue Plan, which stimulated the economy with $1.9 trillion. [In fact, the US stimulated its economy by about 25% of its GDP, more than any other developed country.](https://www.imf.org/en/Topics/imf-and-covid19/Fiscal-Policies-Database-in-Response-to-COVID-19)

What are the results? Only two years after the recession, the unemployment rate was back to its pre-recession level. The US does have high inflation at 8%, but a large portion of that is from supply chain issues. [This Federal Reserve study estimates that 2.5% of inflation can be traced to Covid fiscal stimulus .](https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/fiscal-policy-and-excess-inflation-during-covid-19-a-cross-country-view-20220715.html) But keep in mind that over half of Covid stimulus ($2.2 trillion) was passed via the CARES Act under Trump.

We'll never know what inflation would be without the stimulus, but we can compare American inflation to that of similar developed countries. [It turns out that inflation in the US is lower than it is in the Eurozone.](https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate) What about economic growth? [Well, the US has the highest GDP growth of any developed country.](https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/gdp-growth-rate)

The lesson everyone took from the 2008 was that the stimulus was too small. Underspend and the recession goes on too long, overspend and you get inflation. You're never going to get a bullseye, but as you can imagine, I believe that Biden's efforts in using massive stimulus to guide America's economy out of crisis have been masterful. He's following the advice of economists who learned the right lessons from 2008.

Back to Obama. What were his other domestic accomplishments? He passed the Affordable Care Act, which made healthcare accessible to millions more people. I do believe the ACA remains the greatest piece of American legislation since the 1960s, but other than that, Obama doesn't have much of a legacy. The Recovery Act was weak, and Obama never signed any other important legislation, besides Dodd-Frank.

Biden, on the other hand, was just getting started with the American Rescue Plan. Biden has also signed:

* A $1 trillion infrastructure bill (which Obama and Trump both wanted to get done)
* The CHIPS Act which invests tens of billions of dollars in American semiconductor industry, so we don't have to rely on China for such a vital resource
* The Inflation Reduction Act, which capped insulin costs for seniors, capped out-of-pocket drug expenses for those on Medicare at $2000, allows Medicare to negotiate drug prices (I have no idea how anyone could oppose this), is expected to reduce US greenhouse emissions by 40 percent of its 2005 levels by 2030, and gives the IRS more resources so it can crack down on tax evasion of the super-rich
* Also, Biden even passed some gun control measures (even if they were a little modest)

Now let's talk foreign policy. My view on foreign policy is that the US is effective when it comes to containing violence, but it should not be in the business of regime change or spreading democracy. These are the lessons of the past 30 years. The US military was incredibly effective in ousting Iraq from Kuwait in the Gulf War of 1991, and the US also prevented genocide in Bosnia and Kosovo later in the decade. However, we should have learned from the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars that altering another country's system of government is unwise. So this a pretty straightforward line to walk: Prevent bad actors from doing harm to others, but don't try to undermine authoritarians.

Obama's foreign policy was, unfortunately, a continuation of Bush's foreign policy — not in degree, but in kind. Obama prolonged/expanded the war in Afghanistan by implementing a surge, created a no-fly zone over Libya (look how that turned out), and armed Syrian rebels. In the same way that Bush failed to confront Russia over its annexation of Georgian territories in 2008, Obama didn't do nearly enough after Russia annexed Crimea in 2014. In a 2012 debate with Romney, Obama mocked him for taking a hard stance on Russia, and that point has since aged like milk. Although, I do support the JCPOA, so I'll give Obama credit for that.

On the other hand, Biden took the brave position of ending the Afghanistan War. He took a ton of flak for it, but it was clearly a futile project that was costing the US $50 billion annually, and Afghanistan can finally be at peace. Biden made the point that there are many places in the world that have backwards social values, but that's not an excuse for American intervention. That's the lesson of the Bush administration. Also, Biden is arming Ukraine to the teeth.

So, as far as foreign policy goes, I think Biden is nailing it. He's walking the line I want presidents to walk, and is choosing to fight battles that can be won.

In wrapping up, I'll acknowledge that Joe Biden's isn't eloquent or particularly inspiring. And yes, he does slur his words — although, I see no evidence of cognitive decline. But at the end of the day, Joe Biden gets things done. Policy is kind of boring and often complicated, so lots of people don't know too much about what's going on. You might see gas prices rising and Biden stumbling as he speaks, and draw your conclusions there. I've seen a lot people say that they just voted for Biden because he wasn't Trump. But if you pay attention to what really matters, I think Biden has been a fantastic president. I genuinely believe he's the best president America has had in decades.

Obama, on the other hand, was an amazing speaker, and it was easy for people to love him. He was articulate and exciting, and managed to be pretty modest. But other than the ACA, he has no legacy. He failed the American people by passing a weak stimulus, and resigned the economy to a weak recovery that lasted almost a decade. And his foreign policy was mostly bad.

Keep in mind that Biden has accomplished everything with 50 Democratic senators whereas Obama entered office with a filibuster-proof 60 Democratic senators.
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SWE
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« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2022, 10:55:41 AM »

Yes, there's really no comparison. Obama was an incompetent disaster who left his party in shambles, leaving Dark Brandon to pick up the pieces
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dead0man
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« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2022, 11:05:35 AM »

no

and it's not so much because Obama was better, just that Biden is worse.
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2022, 01:11:48 PM »

For the two years, yes...overall no. Obama's best things happened when he stopped giving f&*ks. I want to see what Biden does with The House gone now , and with Congress completely gone in 2024...assuming he doesn't lose re-election.

This is, however, a very persuasive argument for Biden being better than OP's God, Kill Blinton.
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Alben Barkley
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« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2022, 02:15:17 PM »

For the two years, yes...overall no. Obama's best things happened when he stopped giving f&*ks. I want to see what Biden does with The House gone now , and with Congress completely gone in 2024...assuming he doesn't lose re-election.

This is, however, a very persuasive argument for Biden being better than OP's God, Kill Blinton.

People here really exaggerate just how much I love Bill Clinton lol. I’ve always said I like Hillary better! I’ve just defended Bill from a lot of what I think is unfair criticism of him and his administration, much of which is with 20/20 hindsight and doesn’t take into account the context of the times.

It also praises Bill’s actions in Bosnia and Kosovo even as it praises Biden’s withdrawal from Afghanistan, noting the differences between the two interventions.
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dw93
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« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2022, 03:52:15 PM »

I've more or less been of this mindset from the begging. I've said it many times before, If Biden had a near the near filibuster proof majority in Congress after the 2020 election like Obama did after 2008, the legislative filibuster would've been nuked and he'd go on to be the next FDR or LBJ, whereas if Obama won in 2008 with the slim majorities Biden has had over the last two years, he wouldn't have even gotten the recovery act of 2009 and most certainly would've lost in 2012.


With regards to Foreign Policy, not only do I think Biden was better than Obama, he was probably the best Foreign Policy President since George HW Bush, while Obama, in terms of foreign policy, was arguably the worst Democratic President since LBJ.
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President Johnson
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« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2022, 04:37:13 PM »

I tend to agree, yes. However, while Obama had larger majorities in congress when he came to office, it was a much less liberal majority than today. Even the ACA just barely passed the House, despite 256 seats. Biden is definitely much better on foreign policy.

In retrospect, maybe it would have been better if Biden was president from 2009 to 2017 and Obama his vice president (although the Joe Biden then would have been less progressive than today). Obama might have run in 2016 then, and outright prevent Trump from ever reaching the presidency. Obama would have been more experienced once he gets in then.
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HisGrace
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« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2022, 07:45:26 PM »

I voted for Biden and never liked Obama but LOL, no.

That comment is basically just a longer word salad version of "Biden is great because he spends tons of money and let the Taliban take over Afghanistan". And apparently it's just a coincidence that increasing the money supply causes inflation. I was going to be mean and say it was "Reddit-tier" but it actually is from Reddit, so yeah, that makes sense.

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Afghanistan can finally be at peace

Yeah, everyone was running to the airport because they were afraid of how peaceful the country was going to become under the benevolent hand of the Taliban. And why is "arming Ukraine to the teeth" a good thing then, shouldn't everyone just roll over so Russia can win and get it over with so "Ukraine can be at peace"? Keep people are getting killed at a much greater rate in Ukraine then ever happened in Afghanistan, it's been 25-30 k in just 9 months. So the "just let them get what they want to avoid more bloodshed" argument actually would make more sense for Ukraine.
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2022, 08:09:53 PM »

Too early to say. Biden hasn't won reelection yet.
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Alben Barkley
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« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2022, 08:20:53 PM »

I voted for Biden and never liked Obama but LOL, no.

That comment is basically just a longer word salad version of "Biden is great because he spends tons of money and let the Taliban take over Afghanistan". And apparently it's just a coincidence that increasing the money supply causes inflation. I was going to be mean and say it was "Reddit-tier" but it actually is from Reddit, so yeah, that makes sense.

Quote
Afghanistan can finally be at peace

Yeah, everyone was running to the airport because they were afraid of how peaceful the country was going to become under the benevolent hand of the Taliban. And why is "arming Ukraine to the teeth" a good thing then, shouldn't everyone just roll over so Russia can win and get it over with so "Ukraine can be at peace"? Keep people are getting killed at a much greater rate in Ukraine then ever happened in Afghanistan, it's been 25-30 k in just 9 months. So the "just let them get what they want to avoid more bloodshed" argument actually would make more sense for Ukraine.

Inflation is a global phenomenon right now and is actually less bad in the US than in Europe and other developed nations.

As for the Afghanistan stuff, I don't totally disagree with you or the quote in the OP. I'm torn on it because I think our mission there was pretty much exhausted on the one hand (and how quickly the Afghan government fell supports that), but on the other hand us leaving did clearly have disastrous effects in the immediate term at least. In any case withdrawing was a Trump deal with the Taliban which Biden simply upheld. Anyone who thinks foreign policy would be any better if Trump had won, regardless of their view of Afghanistan, is naive in the extreme. It would be a disaster when it comes to Ukraine and elsewhere, and Afghanistan would have been at least as bad.
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darklordoftech
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« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2022, 11:02:03 PM »

And why is "arming Ukraine to the teeth" a good thing then, shouldn't everyone just roll over so Russia can win and get it over with so "Ukraine can be at peace"? Keep people are getting killed at a much greater rate in Ukraine then ever happened in Afghanistan, it's been 25-30 k in just 9 months. So the "just let them get what they want to avoid more bloodshed" argument actually would make more sense for Ukraine.
There isn’t a single American soldier in Ukraine.
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