Would the economy be better off if all of opebo's proposals were followed?

[J. J.]

Tax brackets of 60% or even higher? Oh yes, what a great idea to destroy any nation's economy. Fortunately the politicians of my country - even those on the democratic left, for the record - are saner in that respect.

Zuzu, there's no such thing as 'any nation's economy', only its government.  The economy is just how the State distributes.

Then we better start redistributing the government right away.

[opebo]

Then we better start redistributing the government right away.

Precisely!  Socialism.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

While the OP didn't phrase it like this, if "all of anyone's proposals were implemented all at once", it would be a disaster. The more aggressive the change, the more disastrous the results. Such changes need to be implemented over a period of years. Opebo's are so aggressive that no amount of time would be enough to prevent the disaster.

The rates I have proposed are merely the historical norm - about 70-90% for the vampiric class.  My personal preference would be for the higher figure, but I think the lower one is also workable if we don't mind the resultant aristocracy.

I would also like to see considerably higher rates on the merely privileged class - such as Torie.. in the 50-60% range.

I'd be comfortable with 70 and 50 as the top brackets, though I'd set them at ~60 and 40 myself.

I'd be comfortable with 50% and 40%, though I would prefer 45% and 36% myself.

That's a little lower than I'd like but I'd be okay with that too. As you rightly point out, these sorts of changes would need to be phased anyway.

[J. J.]

Then we better start redistributing the government right away.

Precisely!  Socialism.

No, that is where we are.  It is time to redistribute the government in the other direction.

[Torie]

Probably more like a week or two, if his little plan to "monetize" our debt by printing 15 trillion dollars is implemented.  

Please stop trolling, Torie.

I thought you favored this approach opebo. Did I misunderstand you?  I suppose I could look up your post.

The behavior in question is I think 'straw-manning', a kind of discourse which is destructive of real argumentation.  Of course I never proposed a sudden printing of 15 trillion as you well know.

This might be one source of my confusion opebo, but I think we had an even more direct exchange on the issue. In any event, if you have a somewhat longer period in mind to monetize the debt rather than all in one day or week or something, feel free to elaborate. I did not mean to misrepresent your point of view. Why on earth would I do that?  I mean, your posts are just so content laden as they are, that making stuff up would seem totally pointless, no?

And I must admit that you have an international perspective, as well as in interest in localities (pity that the localities can't print money themselves, but I guess the feds could, and pay it off for them):

"Actually if the Euros would just print their way out of their 'deficits', we could do the same competitively, and increase our government spending another 800 Billion per year, giving us the V-shaped recovery.

"(By the way the easiest and best economic booster right now would be to monetize the 'state and local' deficits, obviating cuts in state and local spending)"

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

What's next? "Would you let opebo have sex with your wife?" "Absolutely, since he have a larger instrument than you".

[Antonio the Sixth]

Tax brackets of 60% or even higher? Oh yes, what a great idea to destroy any nation's economy. Fortunately the politicians of my country - even those on the democratic left, for the record - are saner in that respect.

Yeah, sure. That certainly explains why at the height of its prosperity the US had 70% tax rates...

We should not forget to say that during the years of "prosperity" you are talking about there were massive tax loopholes for the rich, so in fact 70% was merely a theoretical number for many.

Are there less loopholes today ? I somehow doubt it.
 

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Yeah, the good old Laffer Myth. Always asserted, never proven.

[ZuWo]

Tax brackets of 60% or even higher? Oh yes, what a great idea to destroy any nation's economy. Fortunately the politicians of my country - even those on the democratic left, for the record - are saner in that respect.

Yeah, sure. That certainly explains why at the height of its prosperity the US had 70% tax rates...

We should not forget to say that during the years of "prosperity" you are talking about there were massive tax loopholes for the rich, so in fact 70% was merely a theoretical number for many.

Are there less loopholes today ? I somehow doubt it.
 

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Yeah, the good old Laffer Myth. Always asserted, never proven.

Well, look at the wealthy people and corporations that move from so many European countries (Germany and France, just to name two prominent ones) to low-tax places like Switzerland. And I'm not talking about illegal tax evasion here, I'm referring to those who are attracted by the low tax rates and move there in a very legal way. It is these countries that probably wouldn't mind about higher tax revenues. However, one way to achieve this goal would be to make their countries more attractive by lower taxes, certainly not by raising them.

[Antonio the Sixth]

People who leave a country to pay less taxes will keep doing so whatever the taxation level is (unless of course we reach the levels of Ireland of Luxembourg, which would be ridiculous). Lowering taxes won't convince them to come back, and raising taxes won't make leave people who weren't already leaving.

[opebo]

This might be one source of my confusion opebo.

Nothing about that post indicated at what rate or pace one would be printing and eliminating debt, but I can certainly understand your confusion.

At any rate of course, monetization is only one small part of my economic philosophy - a mere detail as it were - and certainly not a central or necessary one.  If your class were properly taxed there would be no need for it.

[ZuWo]

People who leave a country to pay less taxes will keep doing so whatever the taxation level is (unless of course we reach the levels of Ireland of Luxembourg, which would be ridiculous). Lowering taxes won't convince them to come back, and raising taxes won't make leave people who weren't already leaving.

I think we can leave it at that and agree to disagree. Our views on taxation and the effects of low vs. high tax rates are, to put it mildly, not really compatible. Indeed, taxes are a recurrent issue in Atlasia so there will be plenty of possibilities to debate this in the assemblies, the senate and during election campaigns.

[Antonio the Sixth]

People who leave a country to pay less taxes will keep doing so whatever the taxation level is (unless of course we reach the levels of Ireland of Luxembourg, which would be ridiculous). Lowering taxes won't convince them to come back, and raising taxes won't make leave people who weren't already leaving.

I think we can leave it at that and agree to disagree. Our views on taxation and the effects of low vs. high tax rates are, to put it mildly, not really compatible. Indeed, taxes are a recurrent issue in Atlasia so there will be plenty of possibilities to debate this in the assemblies, the senate and during election campaigns.

I guess you're right.