Austrian Elections & Politics 2.0 (Presidential runoff re-vote: 4 Dec. 2016)

[windjammer]

Is FPOVP the likeliest future government ?

[windjammer]

Do the people in this thread calling Hofer a "fascist" seriously believe that Hofer wants to abolish democracy? As far as i know that's a prerequisite of fascism.

Nah, it's just a buzzword.

Anyway, I imagine there are many people who now voted for the FPÖ for the first time. The mental "threshold" for them to do so in the next parliamentary election might be substantially lower than before (especially if VdB turns out to be a terrible anti-democrat). That's good.

I'm surprised you seem to support FPÖ considering there are a lot of antisemite tendancies in this party

[windjammer]

I'm surprised you seem to support FPÖ considering there are a lot of antisemite tendancies in this party

I have no illusions about the FPÖ. I don't think they're true friends of the Jewish people. However, I do think they can be useful allies. After all, despite the fact that quite some ethnic Austrians might be antisemitic (as my family knows all about) and despite the fact that Strache "ordering three beers" does not exactly make me like him, non-natives (and I'm not talking about the Chinese here) pose the greatest threat to Jews and Jewish life in Western Europe, and it is solely because of them that our institutions need to be protected and that we sometimes cannot walk on the streets safely while being dressed visibly Jewish. The FPÖ is the only party that is against such immigration. Moreover, it is the only Austrian party that is quite pro-Israel and that is in touch with proud Israeli lawmakers on a constant basis. I don't "like" supporting Hofer or the FPÖ, but there is no alternative (though in the last election I supported the disaster named Team Stronach).

Non natives a treat to jews???

[windjammer]

Non natives a treat to jews???

Toulouse? Brussels? Copenhagen? Hypercacher? Ilan Halimi? And then all these "small", "insignificant" acts of violence and threats that go unnoticed for the general public.

Toulouse? You mean Mohammed Merah?
It happened in 2012 much before the refugee crisis. And Mohammed Merah wasn't even a refugee. He was french.
And regarding Bruxelles, same thing, it has been perpetuated by people born in Belgium, not by Syrian refugees.

[windjammer]

Non natives a treat to jews???

Toulouse? Brussels? Copenhagen? Hypercacher? Ilan Halimi? And then all these "small", "insignificant" acts of violence and threats that go unnoticed for the general public.

Toulouse? You mean Mohammed Merah?
It happened in 2012 much before the refugee crisis. And Mohammed Merah wasn't even a refugee. He was french.
And regarding Bruxelles, same thing, it has been perpetuated by people born in Belgium, not by Syrian refugees.

I'm pretty sure David knows that as much as we do. Still, he does have a point - there is a considerable amount of anti-semitism present in modern Europe, and this is anti-semitism is present to a larger amount among groups with a migrant background than among those of "native population", to use a term I do not quite like myself but that is probably understood. That it is not to say that this is only limited to people with migrant backgrounds, far from it actually, nor that this migrant background is the direct reason for its manifestation - in fact, this has far more to do with a certain socio-economic background, which people with a migrant background are sadly far too often trapped in in modern European society (there is I guess no word to better sum up this socio-economic background than Banlieue). But the fact is that there is a problem with anti-semitism, one the left or "established" parties are quite often a bit too quick to dismiss as "non-significant" or even petty, often in a false fear of being labeled anti-immigrant or racist or whatnot. This has one sad result - it allows far right parties, be it FN or PVV or DFP or FPÖ, to capitalise on this issue, and put up a correlation with islamphobia and anti-immigrant sentiments that, in my eyes, should not exist.

So to sum up, I agree with David that there is an issue with anti-semitism, that this is often related with migrant communities, and that this issue is not treated accordingly by leftist and established parties. I believe this needs to be adressed, also by leftist and established parties, but not by putting the blame on migrant communities such as far right parties currently do, but by actively combating and showing absolutely no tolerance to anti-semitism wherever it may arise, if among people with migrant background or among "native" Europeans.

Just to be clear about something,
Yes, antisemitism is a problem and we must fight it like we must fight every other form of xenophobia, never denied that.
But the cause of antisemitism isn't the growing number of refugees, and I don't think it's fair to hold them responsible for something they never did.

And David, I know you mean well, so that's why I will take time to answer you because you're not a far-right crazy idiot and that you're really an intelligent person.
Believe me, I understand that you think that way. With all this antisemistism, and considering you're yourself a devoted jew, this is normal you feel threatened and don't feel secured at all. But this is not by doing that, stopping immigration because of fear of muslims that will make things better. It will make things much worse. If people treat muslims as delinquent, this is the best way to make sure some of them end up being manipulated by antisemitic persons. If you have no expectation for someone and treat him as a delinquent, yes, he might become a delinquent because of that.

And Dutch conservative, I live in France and I am currently studying in a town with a high population of people being muslims, I enjoy it quite a bit and I never have had any problems with any of them

[windjammer]

For the record I support the alliance of rightwing and far-rightwing parties in Europe. The best way to sink them.

[windjammer]

So considering 2016 has been a disaster, I suppose Hofer is going to win this?


Is Strache the likeliest next chancellor?

[windjammer]

Any news?

[windjammer]

VdB wins Vorarlberg state (closed at 1am) with 60-40 !

Without postal votes ...

Good news?

[windjammer]

Salzburg State won by VdB (=> pickup).

Is a FPO-OVP coalition likely?

[windjammer]

I suppose Strache as chancellor with OVP-FPO coalition is likely.