Wisconsin Megathread v3: GOP in MASSIVE DISARRAY

[politicallefty]

This certainly looks how sane and functioning democracies work.

How does Wisconsin, at least one heart of the Progressive movement, not have a robust initiative and referendum process?

[politicallefty]

This certainly looks how sane and functioning democracies work.

How does Wisconsin, at least one heart of the Progressive movement, not have a robust initiative and referendum process?

Voters had a chance 100+ years ago but they shot it down as no party really made a case for it, and the Dems/GOP were publicly against it. Probably a good example of voters not really thinking too hard about what they were voting for.

Never go against a ballot initiative amendment. It's rare for a legislature to offer that and if you turn it down once, you probably won't get another opportunity. Lawmakers hate sharing power.

It is rather surprising overall though. Ohio and Michigan basically stand alone in the East in that respect. Wisconsin does allow for recall though, which most states do not. The signature requirements are incredibly stringent though. I'm still amazed they managed to get a recall election on the ballot statewide in 2012 when the requirement is 25% of the votes cast for governor in the particular jurisdiction within 60 days. However, Wisconsin's version of a recall is really less that and more of a forced election.

[politicallefty]

Initiatives are a great tool of special interests to do an end run around the legislature and buy legislation, and then of course once they get their legislation it can't ever be changed without an initiative, which nobody can ever pursue because it would be cripplingly expensive to defeat the corporation. In 2020 we got Proposition 22, which means that the legislature can never regulate the working conditions of Uber or Lyft drivers; in 2010 we nearly got Proposition 16, which would have effectively banned municipalities from replacing PG&E with municipally owned power providers. There are plenty more examples of corporations using the initiative process to buy laws that could never possibly be passed in the legislature because they are odious to anyone who understands them.

The initiative process is also a great tool to weaponize in industrial disputes, because doing so only comes at the expense of voters who have to deal with frivolous initiatives. When I filled out my ballot there were so many things to vote on that at the end my hand was quite literally hurting. Of course I'm not competent to decide on any of this, because that's what elected legislators are for.

I care much less about marijuana legislation than I care about the place I live in having a functional tax base, which it never will because the initiative process allowed economically illiterate voters in 1978 to have their say. That can't ever be fixed because doing so would require a ballot measure that could never withstand the unfathomable sums of money that would be spent against it. The more direct democracy you have, the more you hate it.

I think you make very good points here, but it does seem to depend on the state. The initiative system in California has been horrendously corrupted. It is indeed a nightmare. However, many other states without this process have entrenched majorities that are completely irresponsive to the people. Wisconsin has a Republican supermajority in the state Senate and nearly the same in the state House. The courts are literally the last recourse in that state and that might not even be enough when they have enough votes to impeach and remove anyone from office.

The initiative process wouldn't really be as necessary as it is if we had responsive government and political parties. There are a multitude of reasons for that, not least of which being the fact that most states have largely adopted the federal model. For most of this country's history, that was not the case. At the very least, states should have a unicameral legislature. I'd prefer a parliamentary system for most states, but not everyone has to go that far. I do think California would be far better off with a unicameral parliamentary system.

[politicallefty]

Yes and in Wisconsin this potentially would have seen us restoring the death penalty in 2006, something we abolished in 1853. Seeing as it passed in an advisory referendum.

That was put on the ballot by the Legislature though. It doesn't have anything to do with the initiative process. What's worse is that Republicans have entrenched themselves into powerful majorities and they're attacking the only possible remedy within the confines of the Wisconsin Constitution. (I intentionally used that phrasing as there is a possible federal remedy through the Guarantee Clause, but that seems very unlikely.)

[politicallefty]

Honestly any Republican legislator who votes to impeach her should be charged with treason

Thats not the definition of treason. In Article III, Section 3 of the United States Constitution, treason is specifically limited to levying war against the U.S., or adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfor

It should be grounds for Congress to invoke the Guarantee Clause under Article IV though.

[politicallefty]

Republicans have gone from coping to full-blown fascism now.

It's crazy that this is even possible, but in the past 10 years, Republicans have transformed (= rigged) Wisconsin districts to produce a 70% Republican state legislature - in a state that usually votes 50-50.

Now do Nevada

This is not the Nevada megathread. You must be confused.

What that user means is that if we were to complain about WI's political geography naturally favoring Republicans, we should also mention NV's political geography naturally favoring Democrats.

If the Nevada Republicans want to do something about their geographic disadvantages, they are more than welcome to put in the work Wisconsin Democrats have (i.e. complete foundational reboot, relentless organization and voter engagement, perfect message discipline, stellar candidate recruitment, picking their battles strategically) to get themselves in such a strong position to address it.

I'm being cheeky but the Wisconsin Democrats really are an incredible blueprint for state parties that underperform their statewide potential all throughout the country.

Voters in Nevada also have the ability to put constitutional amendments on the ballot through the initiative process, an option the citizens of Wisconsin do not have.

Entrenched majorities that thwart the will of the majority are a major threat to a functioning democratic republic. Tyranny of the majority is always a threat, but it's a known threat and why we try to have safeguards in place. Tyranny of the minority is a sign of something even worse.

[politicallefty]

Say what you want about the WI GOP, but there is no good argument against this:

[SNIP]

It's just a bill right now. Let's not get ahead of ourselves, but yes, you are right that there is no good argument against this. However, it has been Republicans that have been fighting such measures over the past few years. On a finer point, I would ask why wait until the Monday before Election Day. A large number of ballots can a lot longer than that to process. I don't have a lot of good things to say about Florida, but they pretty much know how to get things done. Keep in mind there's also a difference between processing and actually counting the ballots.

[politicallefty]

What's the contiguity argument? Was it something like water or touch-point contiguity?