Intercessory Prayer (user search)
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Author Topic: Intercessory Prayer  (Read 4386 times)
12th Doctor
supersoulty
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« on: July 13, 2008, 01:17:07 PM »

Well, I'll let the non-Catholics start the discussion, and, as is my custom, I will job in and counter their thoughts.  So... discuss.
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
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« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2008, 02:22:36 PM »

??

Do I need to give a Pagan prayer, to start the discussion or what?  I am still relatively new here.

No, I am talking about the general topic of intercessory prayer.
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
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Posts: 20,584
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« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2008, 11:08:58 PM »

I imagine the topic is about the idea of a living person praying on a deceased person's behalf, that God would show them mercy, or the idea of appealing to dead Christian saints. I imagine Soulty is waiting for a hyper protestant to come in and decry it as evil, misrepresenting the idea of intercessory prayer. Then we'll get a wearisome back and forth for our entertainment Smiley

Actually, I was thinking about the topic generally, but most specifically in terms of dealing with the saints and such.
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
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Posts: 20,584
Ukraine


« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2008, 10:12:20 PM »
« Edited: July 21, 2008, 10:19:16 AM by Supersoulty »

I have traditionally believed only person can mediate the eternal dispute between imperfect humanity and perfect Deity.  And his name is Jesus Christ.

Not quite.  I am going to assume that you are most directly referring to 1 Timothy 2:5-6:

 5
    For there is one God. There is also one mediator between God and the human race, Christ Jesus, himself human,
6
    who gave himself as ransom for all. This was the testimony at the proper time.

What Paul really seems to be slipping into here is a discussion about Jesus' unique role as the only being both God and man, and not discounting the prays of others from directly reaching God.  In otherwords, Jesus' role as mediator does not preclude the prayers of others having power.

 1
    First of all, then, I ask that supplications, prayers, petitions, and thanksgivings be offered for everyone,
2
    for kings and for all in authority, that we may lead a quiet and tranquil life in all devotion and dignity.
3
    This is good and pleasing to God our savior,
4
    who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.
7
    For this I was appointed preacher and apostle (I am speaking the truth, I am not lying), teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.


Some Protestant groups, and I don't say this critically, I say this matter-of-factly, like to rip single passages from Paul, and ride them.  But Paul is not the easiest person to understand, you need alot of assistance from context.

As Peter tells us (2 Peter 3:15-16):

 15
    And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you,
16
    speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.

On three occasions (Romans 15:30, Col 4:3, 1 Thess 5:25) Paul explicitly asks the reader of the letter to pray for him and his companions.  And multiple more, he mentions that he is praying for the reader.

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Indeed, they must be praying for us, as we are told in Revelations of how the prayers of the saints, both living and dead, are delivered to God in Heaven:

5:8
    When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones.

Here, the prayers of the saints (here, the word "saints" is understood to mean all the faithful) are delivered to Jesus via the Saints in Heaven.

And then again in Revelation 8:

 3
    Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne.
4
    The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel.

As an aside, I've never understood why Revelation doesn't make it impossible to attack the "smells and bells" style of the older Catholic worship service.  Reading this, it becomes obvious why we have incense and alters.

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No orthodox/mainstream Christian argues that we should pray to anyone but God.

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An interesting observation.  Explain.
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