Accepting my accolades

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

As you may or may not know, I left this forum back on June 3rd, due to the utter leftist garbage being spewed. Living in suburban Ohio, I saw the electorate looked much better for Donald Trump. I tried to warn my fellow liberal posters only to be insulted, deemed a bigot, an idiot. I couldn’t take it. I decided to sit back and wait for Trump to win the election.

Now, a brief trip down memory lane:

I've been playing with the demographic calculator on 538, and even if Trump loses Romney's Hispanic numbers and the turnout is increased overall, he keeps it extremely competitive in the electoral college due to the turnout of non-college whites. In fact, if we can surmise that Trump will do better with black voters than Romney did (you can only go up from there), even if by a small percent, Trump's electoral votes gain drastically.

In fact, many of my calculations show a plausible scenario where Trump loses the popular vote by 1%, but wins a comfortable electoral college victory.

To be honest? Unlike the last two elections where my gut expected Obama to win (and I predicted that both times) my gut this time actually says that Trump will win the election. I just can't see the anti-establishment Trump/Sanders angry political mood culminating in a win for Hillary Clinton. It doesn't make sense. It would be like McCain winning solidly in 2008. I could try and spin it all I want, but in the end, we knew Obama had it from the get-go. My gut tells me this is going to be a good year for Donald Trump.

We need to jackhammer away with males. She's doing so horribly and male voters are the least likely to sway back and forth. If we can get too many whites to vote against her, all she will have is the McGovern rainbow coalition.

I think you guys are way off on this. I'm not talking about the Republican electorate, I'm talking about the entire electorate.

Just a few recent polls:

Federal bank bailout, good or bad?

Bad: 55%
Good: 23%
Unsure: 22%

Government and big business working for or against Americans?

Against: 68%
For: 13%

Should Government programs be enforced to help income inequality?

No: 58%
Yes: 31%

Should there be a shutdown of Muslim immigration?

Yes: 45%
No: 41%

PA/OH/FL

Best to handle the economy?
TRUMP

Best to handle terrorism?
TRUMP

Who is more honest and trustworthy?
TRUMP

How the hell is that only the GOP mood? Those aren't "Republicans only" polls.

I heard a Hillary supporter in another thread mention that the "current environment" favors Hillary Clinton and I was kind of taken back by it. I think the whole Trump/Sanders anti-establishment anti-politician backlash against political correctness benefits Trump much more than Hillary. Maybe I'm wrong. I just can't see all the turnout, the record breaking crowds, the enthusiasm, the anti-Washington attitude in both parties culminating with "Textbook politician Hillary Clinton elected. Time's Person of the Year: Hillary Clinton. Headline of the Year: Hillary Clinton."

Am I wrong here? It just doesn't feel right.

I know a handful of Obama 2012 Trump 2016 voters personally. Of course, it's just a handful of people in Ohio. I actually get the impression he's really well liked up here compared to places like Colorado or Virginia.

Trump seems to do well in the blue collar states (Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan) whereas I think more upscale whites in Virginia and Colorado will be a problem for him. Florida I have no clue.

Who do you think you'll find more of in Ohio or Indiana or Missouri or Florida? A person saying what Trump said, or quoting Maya Angelou poems? The disconnect in this country is astounding, regardless of which side you are on.

I have trouble believing that in this Trump/Sanders/High GOP turnout/anti-establishment election year, the end result will be "Hillary Clinton, the epitome of establishment...in a landslide".

Once again, you all missed it. You missed the point. I was always respectful in my opinions and analysis, which was proven right on Election Day, only to be torn apart. That blindness in the obvious led to the liberal defeat. I must accept accolades.

I've been called every name in the book here.  I've been called a racist, a sexist, a homophobe, delplorable.  All part of the campaign to make people who advocate enforcement of existing immigration laws, who observe Biblical morality and suggest that it is a better foundation for society than what they propose, are somehow the scum of the Earth. 

I had one person who actually wished my demise.  I had another person who created an account using a slight twist of my screen name (one letter off), but the same in every other way, and posted outrageous statements that he/she hoped would be attributed to me.  And lots of folks called me AND my family "deplorable" solely because we were voting for Trump.

Of course, once Trump won, many of these folks left.  The others stayed and whined, but most of the personal attacks stopped.  In their hearts, they are Low Energy Cowards without staying power, and they can't handle a fight where one party can attack them without getting into the mud with them.

I notice that there are a lot more blue avatars now.  And there should be.  While I can understand why folks don't want to take crap from folks when they don't have to, our message to the Moral Pygmies of the Left ought to be simply this;  WE WON'T BE RUN OFF!

No one is going to run me off.  Especially not folks that I have determined to be either (A) foreigners involving themselves in American political dialogue, (B) folks who hide behind a screen name to call me (and others) "deplorable" because they hate Caucasians and/or Christians and don't want to be honest with their own biases, and (C) liberals who, quite frankly, are ambivalent about being American and ambivalent about the kind of patriotism that will cause one to love country over ideology.  The Blame America First crowd.

I know lots of folks on a personal level who backed Hillary.  I feel their pain; my candidate (Dems and Reps at different times) has lost more than once.   But the snot-noses here who felt free to condemn me, and others, on a personal level, freely in this forum have brought me great joy in knowing of their great angst.  And for those who hung in, I hope you get a lift from their angst as well.  I'm not talking about ALL of the Hillary supporters, but I AM talking about those who attacked me personally, and in an uncalled-for way.  And I'll welcome back Reaganfan.  Perhaps it'll be a more rational Atlas in the upcoming months.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

stopped clocks etc

nobody cares that you two special little snowflakes got your feelings hurt

That's OK.

I do enjoy pointing out the classless behavior of some of the worst of the red avatars, however.  Just to clarify who's living in the glass house when they throw rocks.

You don't have the moral fiber to criticize someone who agrees with you when they go over the top on someone you disagree with.  That's called a lack of integrity.  Own it.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

I wouldn't say that people predicting Trump would win were right about everything, but yes, in the case of the election result, you guys were right. There's no denying that. I'm not going to defend everything that every Clinton supporter on this forum said; no doubt, many inappropriate and inexcusable things were said. While I was relentless in my criticism of Trump, I tried to stay away from attacks on individual users. With that said, one of the reasons many of us on the left may have been particularly "passionate" is because of how much we believed was at stake in this election. It wasn't just about being afraid of a Republican winning. Many of us felt threatened, or knew people who felt threatened by the (then) possibility of a Trump presidency. The idea of someone who got so much attention from launching insults, often directed at the most vulnerable members of society, becoming president was unthinkably awful to us. Even if most of us knew that there was a chance that the polls could be wrong, we didn't want to get into it, because the implications of a Trump victory were legitimately frightening to us.

Alas, here we are. You want accolades, here you go. You won this battle, and we lost. We're not going away, though (most of us, at least), and whenever Trump does something that we strongly disapprove of, we won't be shy about voicing our dissent. I would quickly respond to what FuzzyBear said by saying that this is not just about losing an election. Yes, disappointment is part of it, but this is not how I, for one, felt in 2000 or 2004. I felt as if many people who I love the most have been told that they don't deserve to live in this country or be considered American. I'm not saying that everyone who voted for Trump believes that, or wanted to send that message, but there are many who have done and said terrible things in the name of Trump. Those people feel emboldened by his victory. Understand that this isn't just a case of people being sore losers. Most of us have accepted the results, but "getting over it" and "getting behind Trump" would involve putting aside fears that are very much grounded in reality.

If you are an illegal alien who is a "dreamer", in that you were (A) brought here by your parents or other adults, (B) have lived here since a very young age, and (C) know nothing of life in your native country, then I do have empathy for your plight.  I hope that something can be worked out that would allow them to stay in the US without granting a general amnesty or on terms that gives others incentive to enter our country illegally.

As for adults who came here illegally, they (A) don't deserve to be here, (B) are NOT American, (C) are NOT my countrymen, and (D) deserve deportation.  Those who are here illegally, who came here as adults illegally, deserve every bit of angst and insecurity they may be experiencing right now.  They brought it on themselves, period.  Those who give them sanctuary, who thwart the law, deserve every bit of the same angst and insecurity.  I can't think of a nation that any person would want to emigrate to that wouldn't take the same posture.

A fear of deportation on the part of an illegal alien is a fear that the illegal alien ought to experience.  They don't belong here.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

Absolutely damning, great job on calling that MONTHS before the election. And I feel so bad that you had to deal with people berating you over it. Awesome job!

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

I wouldn't say that people predicting Trump would win were right about everything, but yes, in the case of the election result, you guys were right. There's no denying that. I'm not going to defend everything that every Clinton supporter on this forum said; no doubt, many inappropriate and inexcusable things were said. While I was relentless in my criticism of Trump, I tried to stay away from attacks on individual users. With that said, one of the reasons many of us on the left may have been particularly "passionate" is because of how much we believed was at stake in this election. It wasn't just about being afraid of a Republican winning. Many of us felt threatened, or knew people who felt threatened by the (then) possibility of a Trump presidency. The idea of someone who got so much attention from launching insults, often directed at the most vulnerable members of society, becoming president was unthinkably awful to us. Even if most of us knew that there was a chance that the polls could be wrong, we didn't want to get into it, because the implications of a Trump victory were legitimately frightening to us.

Alas, here we are. You want accolades, here you go. You won this battle, and we lost. We're not going away, though (most of us, at least), and whenever Trump does something that we strongly disapprove of, we won't be shy about voicing our dissent. I would quickly respond to what FuzzyBear said by saying that this is not just about losing an election. Yes, disappointment is part of it, but this is not how I, for one, felt in 2000 or 2004. I felt as if many people who I love the most have been told that they don't deserve to live in this country or be considered American. I'm not saying that everyone who voted for Trump believes that, or wanted to send that message, but there are many who have done and said terrible things in the name of Trump. Those people feel emboldened by his victory. Understand that this isn't just a case of people being sore losers. Most of us have accepted the results, but "getting over it" and "getting behind Trump" would involve putting aside fears that are very much grounded in reality.

If you are an illegal alien who is a "dreamer", in that you were (A) brought here by your parents or other adults, (B) have lived here since a very young age, and (C) know nothing of life in your native country, then I do have empathy for your plight.  I hope that something can be worked out that would allow them to stay in the US without granting a general amnesty or on terms that gives others incentive to enter our country illegally.

As for adults who came here illegally, they (A) don't deserve to be here, (B) are NOT American, (C) are NOT my countrymen, and (D) deserve deportation.  Those who are here illegally, who came here as adults illegally, deserve every bit of angst and insecurity they may be experiencing right now.  They brought it on themselves, period.  Those who give them sanctuary, who thwart the law, deserve every bit of the same angst and insecurity.  I can't think of a nation that any person would want to emigrate to that wouldn't take the same posture.

A fear of deportation on the part of an illegal alien is a fear that the illegal alien ought to experience.  They don't belong here.

I was referring more to some of my Muslim friends. But what about people who were lured here by employers under false pretenses, and only come to understand after the fact that there are here illegally? Some of them are treated terribly by their employers, but can't speak up about it because of their status. I'm not saying that there should be no consequences for people in these situations, but why does all of the vitriol go their way, rather than toward their employers, who are knowingly breaking the law for profit?

I have no problems with hitting up employers with stiff sanctions.  That's a separate issue, but I'm all in favor of that.  Employers should be no less held accountable to the rule of law then illegal aliens would be.

On the other hand, these folks know that they are illegally entering the US.  Most of them, anyway.  They are in collusion with their employer, and when you make a deal with the devil, it's the devil you're dealing with.  I am sure that there are honest-to-goodness victims in that scenario, but I am also sure that there are many who fully knew what they were doing, in terms of illegality, and did not care about the rule of law.  I get it that the rule of law may be a nicety that dirt poor folks form the third world may not see as a benefit to them, but I would suggest that many of their nations are in the straits they are in BECAUSE they do not have the rule of law.  And regardless of that point, WE IN AMERICA have the rule of law; it is one of the things that make us both a GREAT nation and a GOOD nation.

As for Muslims:  I would suggest that the principles of Sharia Law are, on their face, un-American.  I would suggest that there is no place for folks who believe in "honor killings" in American society.  And I would suggest that the left refrains from criticizing the Muslim community for its misogyny because they are now part of the Democratic Party base.  Islam is not a monolith, but it is a religion with a philosophy, and that includes positions on the correct form of government, positions on tolerance in free expression, free exercise of religion (or refraining from same), and equality under the law regardless of creed or gender that run counter to the principles needed to maintain and sustain a Republic with democratic features.  We have a number of Muslims in this country now, legally, and as long as they're not breaking laws, I'm OK with them staying, but if someone isn't in agreement with the idea of living under a liberal secular democracy, and are OK with using the system to overturn it and attempt to establish a Caliphate, or, at a minimum, bastions where Sharia Law holds sway, then letting those people into our country is something that undermines our democracy.  They hold to un-American ideals, and we don't have to let them in, Constitutionally.  And we shouldn't.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

Trump never was going to ban Muslim immigration and his supporters know it. They just wanted to be able to debate it rationally but they always knew political correctness would prevent this. Even though Islam has shown itself to be an exceptionally violent religion. Forget the West. India, Russia, China, the Philippines, Malaysia... almost everywhere there are Muslims, there is violence. Trump was vindicated by multiple terrorist attacks in late 2015 and 2016. Yet you can't say anything bad about Muslims because the mainstream media and SJW enforce taboos against it. Even Bill Maher was called an Islamophobe. The point wasn't to ban Muslim immigration but to break through the PC circumvention of the First Amendment (sure, it's legal to say, but you'll lose your job, etc.) by taking a 'radical' position and then getting elected to the presidency.

This.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

groups/people claiming to act in the name of christianity have committed dozens of bombings, murders, and other violent attacks against women's health clinics in the u.s.
they regularly call for their targets to be executed or be struck down by god or whatever
and it is not uncommon to hear politicians at any level proclaim that america's laws should be based on christianity (while advocacy for shari'a law is literally zero)

thanks bye

These folks are clearly acting against Scripture.  There is NO Scriptural justification for the acts of misguided folks, period.  And you know this; you are just being intellectually dishonest in order to justify using immigration policy to improve the demographics for your own political party.

America's laws are, indeed, based on Christianity, not in a theocratic sense, but in the sense where Christianity is a religion of tolerance.  Tolerance doesn't mean that everything is as OK as everything else, but it does mean that believers are not to return evil for evil.  It does say that every person is to "work out their own Salvation with fear and trembling", meaning that the question of who is God and what is His deal for eternity ought to be a matter taken seriously by the individual.  It is the Christian foundation of our laws which makes the tolerance of liberal democracy possible.

You know this.  Like Hillary, the real "Evergreen", you are intellectually dishonest about his, but you know this.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

groups/people claiming to act in the name of christianity have committed dozens of bombings, murders, and other violent attacks against women's health clinics in the u.s.
they regularly call for their targets to be executed or be struck down by god or whatever
and it is not uncommon to hear politicians at any level proclaim that america's laws should be based on christianity (while advocacy for shari'a law is literally zero)

thanks bye

These folks are clearly acting against Scripture.  There is NO Scriptural justification for the acts of misguided folks, period.  And you know this; you are just being intellectually dishonest in order to justify using immigration policy to improve the demographics for your own political party.

and terrorists claiming to act in the name of islam are blatantly acting against the qur'an! we keep telling you this! how has it not gotten through to you!?

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that is not what the people i am talking about advocate for

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and the qur'an repeatedly makes the same point (e.g. 5:48, 10:99-100)

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http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx]

groups/people claiming to act in the name of christianity have committed dozens of bombings, murders, and other violent attacks against women's health clinics in the u.s.
they regularly call for their targets to be executed or be struck down by god or whatever
and it is not uncommon to hear politicians at any level proclaim that america's laws should be based on christianity (while advocacy for shari'a law is literally zero)

thanks bye

These folks are clearly acting against Scripture.  There is NO Scriptural justification for the acts of misguided folks, period.  And you know this; you are just being intellectually dishonest in order to justify using immigration policy to improve the demographics for your own political party.

and terrorists claiming to act in the name of islam are blatantly acting against the qur'an! we keep telling you this! how has it not gotten through to you!?

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that is not what the people i am talking about advocate for

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and the qur'an repeatedly makes the same point (e.g. 5:48, 10:99-100)

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http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

Perhaps we ought to vet Muslim immigrants on some of these verses.  As well as their attitude toward secular liberal democracy.  We can do the same to folks of other religions if you wish.  I have a tough time seeing how the theology of other religions supports anything comparable to Jihad.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

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You be the judge.  I had to edit out far more verses to post this much.  Islam is what it is.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

I'm convinced that most of the most obnoxious red avatars were trolls.  They're gone now, as gone as dudeabides (who was a decent guy, but a Bush flunky).

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

i think collecting what some dudes wrote thousands of years ago, in another language with another meaning....(or even worse: a collection of dudes in different spaces at different time for different reasons), to fight for the greater good of their own time and space.....can't be used in a literal way nowaday.

making out of it what helps us in our current society is a question of open interpretation and ofc restrained by the law.

Muslims consider Mohammed to be the Prophet of Allah.  The LAST prophet.  His writings in the Quran are considered to be the words of Allah given to by the Angel Gabriel.  This is different than the Bible, which is a collection of books over thousands of years.  It is a book that assumes great authority, even final authority, in the minds of Muslim believers.

Now I'm a Christian.  I am a Biblical Christian in that I believe the Bible to be the perfect, inerrant, Word of God, so I understand where Muslims are at with the Quran.  (Islam, much more than Christianity, is a Religion of the Book, and it's book has but one author.)  I often see Christians running on Bible verses in their lives that were meant not for all believers at all times, but for folks to whom the passage was written, specifically.  There are many verses in the Old Testament that were instructive then, but not now, because Christians are now living under the New Covenant.  To impose, say, the Hebrew Dietary Laws on modern Christians would be an incorrect interpretation of Scripture; it would not be Rightly Dividing the Word.

Are Radical Jihadists wrongly dividing the Quran?  I don't know the Quran well enough to give a yes or no on that, but there is enough in the Quran for folks from ISIS and the like to use as justification for terror inflicted upon others. 

Is Islam a Religion of Peace?  James 1:8 says "A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways."  Was Muhammed a double-minded man on the issues of peace and violence?  Many of the Quranic verses advocating violence and martyrdom were written during a period of Muhammed's life when he was coming off an assassination plot and Islam was locked in battles for its continued existence.  Martrydom does, in Islam, provide for a believer going straight to Heaven.  (Islam is not a religion of Salvation By Grace Through Faith by any means.)  One thing is certain:  The more violence/martyrdom Quranic scriptures are ones written in Muhammed's later years, and Muslims attach more weight to the later writings of Muhammed.

Is it good for America to allow people to enter its borders when they believe America is an infidel nation and where their guidance regarding infidels is taken from the writings of Muhammed in the Quran?  That's a question that needs to be debated.