Senate Bill: Let's Really Eliminate Farm Subsidies Act (Final Vote)

[Maxwell]

I talked this over with some Senators, and while I have the support of one notable Laborite, I do understand this is not likely to pass in it's current form. Therefore, I am willing to talk about what we can do to reduce farm subsidies or reform it in a way that it makes the program we have in place more effective and less costly. Just as long as we change the name of this bill before we do it

[Maxwell]

Do our subsides go to just Big Ag? If so than I support this whole heartly. Yet if we are giving support to smaller family farms, I think we should continue that or even expand it.

That's a good question, and the way the Farm Subsidy abolition act works, smaller farms get the most benefit, and the it's the bottom 80% of farms. I'll link the Farm Subsidies Abolition Act so we get a good discussion here. I am thinking that we could cut the amount given and then, proportionally, cut the percentage of farms that receive it, only the bottom bracket sort of like a program to help farmers off the ground, or some other method.

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Farm_Subsidies_Abolition_Act

Also, even if the Senate chooses to go forward with full abolition, I think we should amendment so that benefits are cut in a way that businesses have ample time to make up for changes in their subsidies.

[Maxwell]

I really hate big agra. Hate the pro-open borders, the horrible working conditions, the unsafe products (and not just tobacco here either), and the corrupt relationship with the regulatory agencies that are suppose to police them.

I am pretty sure we made efforts to eliminate subsidies for them, and I would have no problem cutting them further or in some otherways reforming but I am not in the business of misapplying my anger at any horrible people and in so doing hurt people we want to help, like the small outfits for instance.

That said if we are going to do this, I will insist on the transition phase that Maxwell spoke of.

I agree with you to a certain extent. and I am glad we are going to work out a transition out of farm subsidies. This may also require a small look at our immigration laws, as I have some questions about our guest worker programs, and if we could use that as a way to grade our farms.

[Maxwell]

Here's a more concrete start (an amendment):

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[Maxwell]

What is the justification for subsidies for small farms?

I'll let someone who favors that explain it (from your comment, I think you and I view this through the same lens), but I'm not sure a full fledged elimination of the program has the votes to pass.

[Maxwell]

Sbane already objected

[Maxwell]

in case we do actually get to do the original intent

Nay

[Maxwell]

If they weren't on the small family farm, they would be doing something else. We don't need to protect this dated image that we have and we should instead be focusing our resources where they are needed. I am in 100% agreement with TNF on this matter.

[Maxwell]

If they weren't on the small family farm, they would be doing something else. We don't need to protect this dated image that we have and we should instead be focusing our resources where they are needed. I am in 100% agreement with TNF on this matter.

So, what is your plan to revitalize rural communities?  Or should we let them fall victim to the vast urbanization going on in this country?

Maybe it's my whole outlook as a free marketer and live and let live, but if these small farms can't survive without the government dole, then they shouldn't be subsidized so that they can "survive" artificially. The Agriculture business will be better off.

That being said, the next amendment is probably going to be ways to time this so that this gives farmers ample time to find ways to make their small farm profitable or to find more opportunity elsewhere.

[Maxwell]

Tmth, having worked on a farm before, can attest to the importance of keeping small communities economically viable.  But if the majority of our senators view those communities as weak and inefficient... not good enough to have a spot in your elite paradise... well, I think that's plain sad.  That's not the progressivism I've come to know.

Can we please stop with the faux outrage and have an actual argument on this?

[Maxwell]

We still don't have a GM, correct? A cost analysis on this if it were just reserved to small farmers would be extremely beneficial.

In my hometown, if we eliminated farm subsidies to small farmers, my town would completely collapse, as would thousands of other farming communities throughout Atlasia.

Right now, Farm Subsidies go to the bottom 80% of Farmers.

And this assumes that people would just go about doing one thing, like that town that you have in mind would completely flounder and be completely unemployed. Chances are, if we give people enough time and space to ween themselves off of Government subsidies, they will find a way to doing something else or finding ways to make their farm more successful and able to survive without government subsidizing them.

That's why the next amendment that will come will create a long term time limit so that we don't do huge damage to the economy.

[Maxwell]

As much as some would like to frame why I have put this legislation forward, this is, in no way, any vendetta towards any persons lifestyle. If I had my way, there would be plenty of subsidies that would get the chopping block. Sadly, even my friends on my side of the aisle would not support many of those efforts. This is one that has a bit more of a broad base support, so I decided to put it up. If people are going to get offended and make it personal, that's their problem, I don't give a damn.

[Maxwell]

I had an amendment in my own head that would've timed this out. Give me some time to think this amendment over.

[Maxwell]

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I have modeled how the reductions may work as an amendment. Obviously, people should come up with their own and make their own conclusions. but here's a start. This is my amendment, so we can get a vote on TNF's.

Amendment is hostile for votes sake.

[Maxwell]

Nay

[Maxwell]

Guess I gotta edit my amendment to fit this new stuff.

[Maxwell]

I won't repeal TNF's amendment.

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Here is the amendment with the changes.

[Maxwell]

What about food security? I'm sorry to say that, but this one of the arguments that people that support farm subsidies tend to say. :/

I don't think that's an especially credible argument now, since we've already gotten rid of farm subsidies for most large companies.

[Maxwell]

What's next on the agenda ladies and germs?

[Maxwell]

I guess I'd be okay with some kind of final vote.

[Maxwell]

Please give me a bit of time - I still have an amendment I may want to introduce.

Okay nevermind, I do want to hear Tmth's amendment.

[Maxwell]

Tmth, the figures I use are from the bill in question, the budget may be different now and includes crop insurance, and not sure if I want to also eliminate that or not. We should probably eliminate those exact figures in terms of dollars and instead just look at reductions in term of percentage change.

And besides that, the amendment is friendly, and there will be some changes made to account for those findings.

[Maxwell]

I don't object but there is something I would like to change. I would like to make it clear that the cap on unemployment benefits would still apply to farmers as well. So if they made $100,000 in 2014, they shouldn't get $100,000 in unemployment checks.

Well, did you want to make an amendment on this sbane?

[Maxwell]

Friendly.

[Maxwell]

Well yes thank you Tmth, and while my own looking at the Federal Budget show that crop insurance does make up of the Farm Subsidies + Crop Insurance, I think this more precise question is for Sirnick to answer. I think the answer would be it would be around $2 or $3 Billion left over.

Maybe we should have a clause that says this does not go after crop insurance.