Israel-Gaza war

[Donerail]

The Church of Saint Porphyrius, one of the oldest in the world, has been destroyed in an airstrike.

Haven't been able to verify this — have only seen posts from Jackson Hinkle and "Christian Mario." At least one source on the ground says it's not true:

https://twitter.com/khaliljeries/status/1711442249681080778

[Donerail]

No side is disputing this theory that "actually the hospital was a secret disguise for rocket launchers" because no one is alleging it other than a manaic republican Talk Elections poster from Ohio.

Come on! "Hamas uses hospitals to launch attacks" is, like, the first thing that anybody learns about this conflict. I guess to some it's presented as "false Israeli narrative", but everybody's heard it. It's literally common knowledge and goes without saying.

The general statement that Hamas stores weapons in or under hospitals is correct. But no one besides you is alleging that it is true of this hospital (a Christian hospital mostly funded by US/UK church groups) or that it is the cause of this explosion.

The current speculation from Israeli sources is that it was a motor failure on one of the heavy-yield Qassems like this one.

[Donerail]

That just seems like "it is possible for a motor failure on a Qassem to have caused this". More generally, the level of destruction and casualties here, and apparently the size of the explosion, are much greater than from a normal Israeli airstrike, or for that matter from a normal Palestinian rocket, so there needs to be a special explanation for why the explosion was so large and catastrophic, and everything that I've seen besides 'weapons depot' has been obviously wrong. 'Motor failure on a Qassem' is maybe not a ridiculous suggestion (though I haven't heard of a motor failure causing this large of an explosion), but this is basically one random tweet bringing it up.

The most likely explanation for the level of destruction is that the warhead was much larger (400kg) than the usual PIJ rockets (most of which are much smaller). That is of course speculation at this point, but given that you have provided nothing (not even a random tweet!) to back up your theory beyond some articles showing that Hamas has previously stored weapons in other hospitals sometimes, assume true until proven otherwise. "Occam's razor," someone said ITT.

[Donerail]

If we can just wrap some things up here:

IDF has released what they purport to be intercepted audio between two Hamas fighters, stating it was a PIJ rocket launched from a cemetery near the hospital that failed.
https://twitter.com/IDFSpokesperson/status/1714541413944250869

And if you don't trust the IDF (reasonable), Quds News has published a daylight photo of the site:
https://twitter.com/qudsn/status/1714521896723636575

No crater, and the surrounding buildings are mostly intact. Not conclusive, but it seems like a rocket failure, not an airstrike and not a secret weapons depot exploding.

Some are suggesting from the photograph that casualties may also be overstated, but without a look inside the hospital (and knowing thousands of people were sheltering in the hospital and on the grounds last night) I'd hesitate to draw any conclusions there.

[Donerail]

And this is - ladies and gentlemen - what genocide denial looks like - brought to you on real time by Atlas.

Having said all this, I don't exactly blame people for assuming the IDF was lying. It was my first instinct too. But sometimes things really are just horrific, senseless mistakes.

Especially disappointed in you, I expected better from you.

For all that I disagree with posters like Snowstalker, at least they’re capable of contributing something valuable to this debate and condemning terrorism and antisemitism without immediately insinuating that Israelis deserved it. There’s a difference between even very strong opposition to Israel’s actions and being a left-wing Ben Gvir.

I'm on a Belgian politics forum too, they say the complete opposite of this forum, and i also highly value/credit like I do with Atlas (or used to). And you're saying completely opposite things at this point.

There's no evidence whatsoever right now, except for some tweets, that backs Israels/US claim. No evidence at all.

There certainly is, including the actual photographic evidence which shows that the incident doesn't resemble a bombing at all, e.g. no crater.

That is not evidence.

I'm not sure if something is being lost in translation or if you are just being deliberately obtuse, but "evidence" is any information — photographs, videos, expert opinions, and so on — that make some factual version of events more or less likely.

For example, a photograph of the aftermath of a bombing is evidence. If there's a large, deep crater, it is more likely that there was an airstrike. If, as here, there is a small, shallow crater surrounded by a bunch of burned-out cars, the account of an airstrike is less likely. Same for the surveillance footage, the Al Jazeera footage, and efforts to geolocate that footage. None of these things are definitive, but what we know generally lines up more with a failed rocket launch than with an airstrike.

You, meanwhile, have provided no evidence, and have instead wandered into this thread to make baseless allegations of "genocide denial" because you have again decided to outsource your own critical thinking to some Belgian politics forum. Not a smart move for your continued tenure on this web site.