The Imperial Dominion of the South's Legislature

[Donerail]

Unless the Legislator from Florida wishes to extend his HSR proposal to include a Miami > Matanzas > Port de Paix > San Juan line, his proposal would be an utter waste - as it is designed to be, it would seem. While the residents of our off-shore territories deserve access to quality education, I cannot in good faith support such a proposal while knowing its true intent. Those against the allocation and subsequent mandate of how said funds should be spent due to ideological differences should not turn around and attempt to waste the funds in order to render them ineffective. Such an action, in my opinion, is worse than the result from which they appear to be running.

Given our current state of technological advancement, your proposal is not technologically possible.

Is this the federal university the government just imposed on us?

Yep.

[Donerail]

Unless the Legislator from Florida wishes to extend his HSR proposal to include a Miami > Matanzas > Port de Paix > San Juan line, his proposal would be an utter waste - as it is designed to be, it would seem. While the residents of our off-shore territories deserve access to quality education, I cannot in good faith support such a proposal while knowing its true intent. Those against the allocation and subsequent mandate of how said funds should be spent due to ideological differences should not turn around and attempt to waste the funds in order to render them ineffective. Such an action, in my opinion, is worse than the result from which they appear to be running.

Given our current state of technological advancement, your proposal is not technologically possible.

Precisely.

So your point is that since we lack the technology those people should just lack a truly high-caliber university?

[Donerail]

No. My point is that in a region of approximately 90,000,000 people, you do not place a national university on the one island of the region that is more than 1,000 linear miles away from the next closest part of the region and that has a population of less than 4,000,000 people. I suppose you could propose subsidizing airfare to the university for all attending students who do not hail from Puerto Rico, but accessibility does not appear to be one of your concerns. Seriously, Miami is farther away from San Juan than it is from Nyman. When you consider and weight the level of poverty, the number of impoverished residents and also the ability for those impoverished residents to benefit from and be able to access the university, then the clear answer is to place it in the Heart of Dixie.

You're catching on. I would suggest Mentone, Texas as an alternate location.

[Donerail]

No. My point is that in a region of approximately 90,000,000 people, you do not place a national university on the one island of the region that is more than 1,000 linear miles away from the next closest part of the region and that has a population of less than 4,000,000 people. I suppose you could propose subsidizing airfare to the university for all attending students who do not hail from Puerto Rico, but accessibility does not appear to be one of your concerns. Seriously, Miami is farther away from San Juan than it is from Nyman. When you consider and weight the level of poverty, the number of impoverished residents and also the ability for those impoverished residents to benefit from and be able to access the university, then the clear answer is to place it in the Heart of Dixie.

You're catching on. I would suggest Mentone, Texas as an alternate location.

So rather than pass on the federal assistance, you simply wish to waste it. Glad to see those limited-government principles are holding true and steady.

If your insistence is that we must allow the federal government to seize control of a portion of our system of higher education, then I see no reason to make it easy for them.

[Donerail]

You should then be advocating that the Legislature refuse the funds by adopting the formal position of having no established location, rather than adopting a spiteful, wasteful solution to the problem you perceive.

I would be, but would that be considered by the likes of you leftists? No.

[Donerail]

You should then be advocating that the Legislature refuse the funds by adopting the formal position of having no established location, rather than adopting a spiteful, wasteful solution to the problem you perceive.

I would be, but would that be considered by the likes of you leftists? No.

I didn't realize that the Legislature was dominated by leftists.

This is petty and I am through wasting my energy debating you. I've outlined clear reasons why my selected location is superior to yours - in addition to outlining why your location is inferior, so I have nothing else to say unless the debate shifts. Rather than attempting to take a principled stand against government overreach and ineffective spending by advocating no selection, you chose instead to take a spiteful, wasteful route. You simply want to teach the federal government a lesson, and in the process, waste taxpayer dollars so you can do so.

I've outlined my idea and unless the Legislator from Florida wishes to take an alternate route in his proposal, I feel the debate on this has been thorough enough.

Wouldn't you like it to be...

You accuse my route of being wasteful? You accuse me of wanting to waste taxpayer dollars? I would turn your attention to the portion of the bill itself that you so recently cited:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The Secretary of Internal Affairs or the Senate would have to deliberately approve such a "waste [of] taxpayer dollars". Can't pin the blame for it on me, since ultimately it has to go through them.

Yes, I do want to teach the federal government a lesson; whether it be through no selection, or through selection of one they shall not approve, either is acceptable.

If it would so please the Legislator from Georgia, I would be happy to withdraw my selection in favor of no selection.

[Donerail]

You accuse my route of being wasteful? You accuse me of wanting to waste taxpayer dollars? I would turn your attention to the portion of the bill itself that you so recently cited:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The Secretary of Internal Affairs or the Senate would have to deliberately approve such a "waste [of] taxpayer dollars". Can't pin the blame for it on me, since ultimately it has to go through them.

I did accuse you of being wasteful and I stand by it. Either the proposal would be accepted - in which case the money would be wasted, or the proposal would be rejected and either kicked back to the Legislature for a second round or appealed in the Senate, which would be wasteful in the concept of time.

Either the proposal would be accepted - in which case the SoIA would be voluntarily spending money on what they can clearly see is a venture chosen only to make a point, or it would be rejected - in which case no money is lost and the matter is dropped.

[Donerail]

I will yield so that the Chair of the smallest major political party may make his case for not selecting a location for the national university.

The Chair of the most important political party in this region thanks you for yielding.

This is a federal takeover of our education system. The Senate has decided, in their infinite wisdom, to follow the orders of the President and establish this sort of national university system. Why? I have no idea. This bill establishes a system of public universities run solely by the federal government, intruding into an area previously controlled and coordinated solely by the region, in order to create various different public systems and turn our universities into a jumbled mess. We need to send a strong message to the federal government, that this is not their place and not their business. Universities are our job to handle, not yours, and we don't need your bureaucracy infecting our region. Thanks, but no thanks. Go do your own job and let us worry about ours. Mind your own goddamn business.

Additionally, accepting this money would be legitimizing the tax that the money comes from. The tax contained in this bill would create what amounts to "illegal beliefs", and punish colleges that reject federal money for philosophical reasons. These taxes would cause those universities that refuse to "change their philosophy then", as the President suggested, and instead refuse to modify their strongly-held beliefs to comply with the demands of the federal government, to be driven out and into bankruptcy. Driving people and institutions into financial ruin just because of what they sincerely believe isn't right, and it isn't Atlasian. It is our moral responsibility to reject money that comes from such an evil source, just as you would (hopefully) reject donations from fringe hate groups.

In the interests of keeping to the regions what belongs to the regions, and rejecting federal attempts to criminalize beliefs, we must reject this university and this federal meddling in our region and in our thoughts.

[Donerail]

Either I'm deeply mistaken, or education is an Atlasian-wide stake, and we have no interest in wanting to compete between regions to see which has the best university and can produce the best students. That is why, if I can think this correctly, there has been created a federal university system, in order to ensure equality amongst regions, and that no inner competition is led, at a time when global competition is already threatening our jobs.

Education is an Atlasian-wide issue, and one that is typically handled by the regional government since the regions are the ones who know best the particular issues that face them and can thus deliver education in a more effective and affordable manner. Competition, however, is necessary between universities: high-quality universities attract many students, and other universities, wanting to attract students as well, change and adapt and improve so that they become high-quality. We need that competition if we want to keep our educational system innovating and constantly improving.

We, Atlasia, are a nation. Each region has powers, indeed, and particularities, but that's the future of our jobs, our kids, our nation that's at stake here ! We won't have an IDS left to defend if Atlasia falls apart, or at least we won't stand a chance in the grand scheme of things. Education may be the most crucial issue there is in order to get out the threats of today's economic situation upwards and not down the drain. Having a federal university doesn't however in my opinion threatens any of the powers the region has as of now, but I think we should be more than happy to welcome there students from all over Atlasia. We need to keep on building an Atlasian feeling, an Atlasian sense of belonging, and what could do that better than having students study all over the country during their years ?

It is the future of our jobs, our kids, and our nation, which is why we need to improve our educational system. We just passed legislation targeting K-12 education in this body, and I would certainly be interested in doing the same for higher education. Nobody is denying that education is extremely important. This region is happy to accept and readily does accept out-of-region students in large numbers to our high-quality regional universities (UNC, Texas, Georgia Tech, New College, UF, UGA, and others); this federal university system would not mean that out-of-region kids would be suddenly allowed to go here, they are already allowed to do that. All it does is create a new federal university system and spend billions of dollars on construction costs instead of on improving our current regional universities.

I will renew my proposal of New Orleans as a compromise, as no one can say it's not a location in economic distress, no one can say it's not centrally located in our region, and no one can say it would not make a great place for a university with all the cultures that have been mixed there to make what it is.

It is. That's why there's already two high-caliber universities located there (Tulane and Loyola).

[Donerail]

If the consensus is that we should accept these funds, then I shall nominate Ocala, Florida, where I can keep an eye on em.

Failing that, there's also:

Dahlonega, Georgia
College Station, Texas
Charleston, South Carolina
Milledgeville, Georgia
Marion, Alabama
Galveston, Texas

Where I would feel comfortable with having such a large federal presence.

[Donerail]

So I'm sponsoring this; it's common-sense legislation to create some fundamentally humane conditions at breeding facilities.

I amend October 2012 to January 2013.

[Donerail]

I'm cool with this. I do have a question about 16: is there a background check or something that is cause for this provision?

Not a background check, but it is kinda like waiting periods for guns; you'd go into the pet store/shelter and pick out one you want or whatever, but you can only pick it up 3 days after that. The idea is that (like with guns) people need to wait to buy an animal and can't just impulse-buy it and get bored after a week and abandon it.

[Donerail]

     As a specific suggestion, I think the animals should be given enough space in their cages to turn in place, though section 13 can be worked to take care of that. I also think the word facility should be specifically defined for the purposes of this bill.

     As a side note, I find section 11 to be fairly humorous. I guess Spot's going to be doing reconnaissance of the neighborhood to find cats to be targetted for rescue.

I'll work up a definition for facility; I was going to get specific dimensions based on the size of the animal, which would be sufficient to turn around in. I should probably fix 7.

[Donerail]

Also where is the Capitol City now ?

Memphis.

[Donerail]

Excellent. I also declare my candidacy for Imperial Speaker in the next session.

[Donerail]

Our pay grades are too high for this level of activity.

Alrighty, so do we need Jbrase to open our speakership election or can I do it?

[Donerail]

[ ] Adam Griffin
[X] SJoyceFla

[Donerail]

In the interest of full disclosure, the reason for my absence from service in the legislature was my service as Secretary of External Affairs during the end of the Polnut administration, not due to shirking my duties. Additionally, while I was Secretary of External Affairs, I remained active in regional issues, speaking on issues in the legislature and even proposing legislation. My second appointment to the regional legislature was shortly followed by confirmation in an election as well (my first was not due to my aforementioned appointment to the SoEA post). To construe the numbers to make it seem as though I have spent less time in this legislative body, or to make it seem as if I am less liked by the citizens of this region, is deceptive.

[Donerail]

In the interest of full disclosure, the reason for my absence from service in the legislature was my service as Secretary of External Affairs during the end of the Polnut administration, not due to shirking my duties. Additionally, while I was Secretary of External Affairs, I remained active in regional issues, speaking on issues in the legislature and even proposing legislation. My second appointment to the regional legislature was shortly followed by confirmation in an election as well (my first was not due to my aforementioned appointment to the SoEA post). To construe the numbers to make it seem as though I have spent less time in this legislative body, or to make it seem as if I am less liked by the citizens of this region, is deceptive.

It was not meant to be 'deceptive'. Your time as SoEA has no bearing on seniority in the Legislature, nor does the amount of time you spent discussing issues as a citizen. It therefore was not mentioned. Also, seniority in most legislative or occupational bodies is measured by the amount of uninterrupted time served, not the total amount of time served, and yet I still included both metrics.

My point is that the observer could interpret it to mean that there was a time I was not involved in the affairs of the nation or our region, which is incorrect.

[Donerail]

What if I abstain? Then will I force PiT's hand?

I assume this position is non-partisan, correct, and when I look for a leader of the senate, I want someone who is active and has a history of being active. Both of these guys qualify and thus explains my dilemma. SJoyce did a good job with JBrase's absence, etc..

     The position is the prerogative of its holder, really. It has never been partisan in the past, but I wonder if that will remain the case. The voting breakdown of the other four Legislators looks vaguely partisan (small sample size, granted).

I'm not exactly sure how I'd make it partisan. Refuse to introduce certain legislation? We've had enough times without legislation in the queue it probably isn't possible to keep up.

[Donerail]

     No comments on my suggestion?

How would that work in a practical sense?

     The position is largely by the book. There's little potential for conflict in administering votes and such unless someone tries to be blatantly unfair and close votes early and such.

     The big obstacle I see is forming a queue of bills. I'd suggest making a post in the Imperial Almanac thread with a queue and just make sure that you both agree on it. One person could be a contrarian to cause problems and gridlock, but I am confident that you are both mature enough to do no such thing.

I wouldn't mind it.

[Donerail]

I'm OK with this. I'd like to set a standard of how proposed legislation is brought to the floor: simple chronology. That's really the only fair way to do it.

Unless there's time constraints on the legislation, yes.

[Donerail]

[X] Aye

[Donerail]

Mr. SJoyce, as the legitimate speaker of this house, may I ask the membership what bills they plan to put forth this term? It would be nice to see some actual legislation put forth.

Looking at the queue right now, we have the revised form of my "Imperial Empiricism Act", a petition of Dave to make our own subboard separate from the other regional governments (purely symbolic), my bill to modify commercial animal breeding facilities, a national park one I was going to work on some more, Griffin's blue law bill, a declaration of Aliya Mustafina day, and a tips & commission act.

[Donerail]

Mr. SJoyceFla, as the honourable speaker, and as the elected representative for the state of Texas I would like to add three bills to the Order paper.

One, the Bill for the expansion of nuclear power in the IDS.
Two, the Bill for the formation of individual congressional representation for the IDS - in plans with the proposed congress of the United States of America.
Three, the bill for the invasion and annexation of Coahila and Taumalipas. 

If you could add them here, they shall be added to the docket ASAP.