Anti-Semitism in UK Labour megathread

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people playing at being a human RSS feed then I don't know if even this thread is a great idea...

Well "Audrey" has already turned the UK gen thread into one, so...

I think that's so unfair, anti semitism upsets me a lot, my nanna was a Holocaust survivor, my boyfriend is a reform Jew,

I was sitting the other day with my boyfriends family, and we talked politics, most of them said they voted labour all their life,
my boyfriend mother said she voted labour even in last election with a heavy heart, she added most of the people she knew that attended her synagogue used to vote labour, but none of them even consider voting Labour again.
Labour has become a very toxic brand to large segment of the Jewish community.

It's why I feel passionate about this particular issue,

That's perfectly reasonable, obviously. The problem in question is that every other post in the U.K. thread is you posting three or so Hodge tweets in bold for some reason (after all, what's the purposing of bolding selected text if it doesn't serve to contrast with non-bolder text?) with an image attatched to each one that results in your insubstantial posting taking up way too much thread space. 

I think certain people talking about taking "scalps" from those who dare to speak out of turn when it comes to Dear Leader's anti-semitism are a much bigger problem in that thread than posting relevant events related to the biggest scandal in the UK right now.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

people playing at being a human RSS feed then I don't know if even this thread is a great idea...

Well "Audrey" has already turned the UK gen thread into one, so...

I think that's so unfair, anti semitism upsets me a lot, my nanna was a Holocaust survivor, my boyfriend is a reform Jew,

I was sitting the other day with my boyfriends family, and we talked politics, most of them said they voted labour all their life,
my boyfriend mother said she voted labour even in last election with a heavy heart, she added most of the people she knew that attended her synagogue used to vote labour, but none of them even consider voting Labour again.
Labour has become a very toxic brand to large segment of the Jewish community.

It's why I feel passionate about this particular issue,

That's perfectly reasonable, obviously. The problem in question is that every other post in the U.K. thread is you posting three or so Hodge tweets in bold for some reason (after all, what's the purposing of bolding selected text if it doesn't serve to contrast with non-bolder text?) with an image attatched to each one that results in your insubstantial posting taking up way too much thread space. 

I think certain people talking about taking "scalps" from those who dare to speak out of turn when it comes to Dear Leader's anti-semitism are a much bigger problem in that thread than posting relevant events related to the biggest scandal in the UK right now.

Scalp in a purely political context is pretty common and inoffensive verbiage, no? Just some examples:

- The Memo: Trump allies say he needs a GOP scalp

- Obama Scalps America's Self-Defense Capabilities

I do not implore violent imagery and actually detest gulag and guillotine (e.g.) jokes from my fellow leftists.

Yes, it's fairly common usage, that looks less benign when used in the context of talking about expelling people from a party for condemning the leader's anti-semitism.

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In case anyone forgot, this is not new, it's not ambiguous, and it's not about Israel.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11837454/Jeremy-Corbyn-campaigned-for-release-of-Embassy-bombers.html

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I believe it was, but some of the photos are new and put the lie to his claims that he wasn't there to honor them.

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There's definitely a lot of people on Twitter defending Corbyn over his past support for the coldblooded murder and torture of Jews and his ongoing support for their marginalization in British life.

And every single one of them is exposing themselves as a morally depraved human being.

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It doesn't matter how many insanely suicidal Jewish groups people post saying "Actually the Jews have it coming" or whatever twisted rationale it is today. They're irrelevant tokens. Might as well be posting Alan Keyes making the case that blacks commit most of the crimes so mass incarceration is okay.

I think we all know what Corbyn is at this point, but what's really been instrumental about this crisis is just how many people not just stand by him, but stand by his anti-semitic beliefs.

Thank God this world has Israel to keep it in check.

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It doesn't matter how many insanely suicidal Jewish groups people post saying "Actually the Jews have it coming" or whatever twisted rationale it is today. They're irrelevant tokens. Might as well be posting Alan Keyes making the case that blacks commit most of the crimes so mass incarceration is okay.

I think we all know what Corbyn is at this point, but what's really been instrumental about this crisis is just how many people not just stand by him, but stand by his anti-semitic beliefs.

Thank God this world has Israel to keep it in check.

Are you always this disrespectful towards Holocaust survivors? Tokens? Really?

Are you referring to Hajo Meyer? The Hajo Meyer who spread the blood libel that Israel was equivalent to the Nazis and believed in 9/11 conspiracies? He was obviously a very sick man whose trauma turned him into a useful tool for those who wanted to begin the cycle anew.

Regardless, let me make this very clear. There is NOTHING - no background. no trauma. NOTHING - that makes supporting Strasser on the Thames and his (currently) cold war against the Jewish population of Britain morally acceptable.

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Corbynists never fail to live down to even the most basic expectations of human decency.

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Corbynists never fail to live down to even the most basic expectations of human decency.

You guys support countless wars and strikes all over the world resulting in the murder of countless civilians but sure 'human decency'.

Oh, this is interesting. Who exactly is "you guys"? Because this is either a really senseless derailment, or something much more sinister.

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I may regret entering this thread, but doesn't it seem that the hyper-focus on Corbyn and his folks in the Labour Party right now seem like a distraction from Brexit?

As nasty and inexcusable as Corbyn's condoning and his actions are, the pattern of this actions isn't exactly new.

And given how utterly consumed British politics is by Brexit, this focus on anti-semitism strikes me as a useful angle for papers and tabloids to have something else to talk about.

Thoughts?

I'm not from the UK, but the Brexit thing is in a really weird place, isn't it? The party in favor of Brexit is led by a Brexit skeptic who doesn't seem to know what to do, while the party opposed to Brexit is led by an EU-skeptic who has become increasingly soft on Brexit.

I think you're right that the media doesn't quite want to talk about Brexit because they don't really know how to cover it. No one quite knows the effects it'll have or how it'll be done. But the fast-growing anti-semitism scandal isn't a distraction so much as it is a much easier and certain topic to cover. The way it's unfolding a mile a minute hasn't helped slow the coverage.

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...when whataboutism goes wrong.  Be careful out there kids.

Why do you, a white American, love Israel so much? Because they kill brown people and thumb their nose at the world/international law while they destroy the Palestinian population? Be honest.

Boy, you sure are doing a great job of convincing us that anti-semitism is a bygone issue and not a pressing issue.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

...when whataboutism goes wrong.  Be careful out there kids.

Why do you, a white American, love Israel so much? Because they kill brown people and thumb their nose at the world/international law while they destroy the Palestinian population? Be honest.

Boy, you sure are doing a great job of convincing us that anti-semitism is a bygone issue and not a pressing issue.

You support Donald Trump, a man who welcomes the support of Nazis and who David Duke and Richard Spencer absolutely adore. Why should I take you seriously on any of this?

I don't support Trump. I never have. My screen name on this site was "Never Trump" during the election, you blood-libeling loon.

Jeremy Corbyn is a direct threat to the safety of every Jewish person in the UK. Your support for him indicates that you wish for his brand of Judenhass to come here. Keep my name and your lies about my political opinions out of your mouth.

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In a thread about how blaming Jews for Israel's actions is a chief form of anti-semitism, a rando comes in to turn the conversation to Israel.

Corbynists never fail to live down to even the most basic expectations of human decency.

Evergreen.

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In a thread about how blaming Jews for Israel's actions is a chief form of anti-semitism, a rando comes in to turn the conversation to Israel.

Corbynists never fail to live down to even the most basic expectations of human decency.

Evergreen.

Sorry for triggering you.

I'm sure you'll be the toast of the National Anti Zionist Initiative party.

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I apologize, guys. I was mad today and took it out on posters in this and other threads. So sorry for my anti-Semitic/trollish comments. Yeah, they're inexcusable. I especially apologize to all of the Jewish posters here. Your forgiveness would be appreciated but by no means demanded.

You're forgiven. It's rare to see someone own up like this.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

I apologize, guys. I was mad today and took it out on posters in this and other threads. So sorry for my anti-Semitic/trollish comments. Yeah, they're inexcusable. I especially apologize to all of the Jewish posters here. Your forgiveness would be appreciated but by no means demanded.

Nothing to forgive you for, you were right.

You, on the other hand, are beyond hope.

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did I miss something that got deleted?

(if nobody wants to rehash it again publicly, I'll take a pm)

Nothing got deleted. There was some relatively minor trolling and whataboutery, and I bit back maybe a bit harder than I should have given how this thread has me keyed up. It was on the verge of ending well when this board's own Max Blumenthal jumped in to say that, actually, bringing up Israel mockingly in a thread about anti-semitism is good and pure.

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Meanwhile, nothing to see here. This isn't what a would-be brutal dictator says at all.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-22/corbyn-seeks-to-curb-media-power-after-wave-of-negative-stories?cmpid%3D=socialflow-twitter-politics&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=politics

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Meanwhile, nothing to see here. This isn't what a would-be brutal dictator says at all.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-22/corbyn-seeks-to-curb-media-power-after-wave-of-negative-stories?cmpid%3D=socialflow-twitter-politics&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=politics

It might be best to keep the Corbyn Trump-like anti-media psychosis in the UK thread, leaving this one for the Corbyn anti-Zionist psychosis.

Edit: I may have misread the tone of the comment, apologies. But I see them as 100% linked, given how he seems to want to target the media because of their harsh-but-justified treatment of him over the anti-semitism scandal.

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There's a lot of conflation of Israelis and Jews going on all right, but it's all on the part of Corbyn and his supporters.

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So, the Zionist position is support Israel or we'll smear you into oblivion? I suppose Noam Chomsky is also an anti-Semite?

It is remarkably easy to criticize Israel without being anti-semitic. Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to reach that bar.

Really sure you want to go to bat for the guy insisting Jews aren't proper citizens if they don't renounce Israel, who is currently being cheered by actual Nazis for speaking "Truth to Jewish power"?

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So, the Zionist position is support Israel or we'll smear you into oblivion? I suppose Noam Chomsky is also an anti-Semite?

It is remarkably easy to criticize Israel without being anti-semitic. Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to reach that bar.

Really sure you want to go to bat for the guy insisting Jews aren't proper citizens if they don't renounce Israel, who is currently being cheered by actual Nazis for speaking "Truth to Jewish power"?

If anyone said this about Islamists there would be no controversy whatsoever. Many people in the conservative right-wing do that on a daily basis. Yes, Corbyn's comments were wrong but it was used in reference to those that tried to shut down on the freedom of speech of a Palestinian Ambassador criticising Isreal.

Till, Noam Chomsky is a raving anti-Semite as he has the exact same opinions.

And this would be seen as a reasonable defense if it wasn't for the hundreds of other incidents detailed in this thread.

The Noam Chomsky/assorted Jewish antizionists argument doesn't quite wash either, because Jewish antizionists can be safely assumed to not have nefarious plans for diaspora Jews. The latter cannot be safely assumed for the unaffiliated, as history has proven.

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They should split. And make clear that they will never sit with a Labour government under Corbyn.

It's not just about keeping him out of power, it's about denying him the prestige of the "Honorable opposition". As long as he has a party that is close in numbers to the Tories under his thrall, he gains international respect. A huge chunk of his MPs leaving would make clear to the world that he's leading nothing more than the BNP in a Che t-shirt.

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They should split. And make clear that they will never sit with a Labour government under Corbyn.

It's not just about keeping him out of power, it's about denying him the prestige of the "Honorable opposition". As long as he has a party that is close in numbers to the Tories under his thrall, he gains international respect. A huge chunk of his MPs leaving would make clear to the world that he's leading nothing more than the BNP in a Che t-shirt.

See, this is exactly what I was talking about. Labour's poor handling of antisemitic remarks and actions by its members is shameful, and Corbyn is a part of that, but it doesn't come close to the outright racism of the BNP.

As Silent Hunter alluded to, it's a problem when people can't distinguish between outright antisemitism, borderline statements that could be taken either way, and legitimate criticism of Israeli policies. Not only does it unfairly calumniate people who are making arguments critical of Israel in good faith (read: not due to antisemitism), it shamefully provides rhetorical cover to people who are making antisemitic arguments but disingenuously claim they are not.

Corbyn's Jewish "cover group" JVL just scheduled a meeting on anti-semitism for Yom Kippur. This isn't about Israel anymore and hasn't been for some time.

The hostility that UK Labour has shown towards British Jews making good faith criticisms of the party's anti-semitism has taken this to a completely different level.

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That Tory number has to be very much off.