Opinion of ingemann

[ingemann]

He's clearly the greatest Freedom Fighter on this board and I simply lack words for for how much I admire him.

He said Bismarck should have "broken" France in 1870. HP.

That was a stinker indeed and also rather unpatriotic considering how much hope Danes had in Napoleon 3. revenging our humiliation in 1864 and sticking it to those uppity Krauts.

Vive la France! and may Bismarck rot in hell, of course.

I of course respect Antonio's and yours reasons to disagree with me here. I too would have prefered a Denmark which including Altona. But I think a large stable Social Democratic imperial Germany in 1920ties and later to what we got, and that needed a France broken  and preferable without the massive losses of WW1.

[ingemann]

He's clearly the greatest Freedom Fighter on this board and I simply lack words for for how much I admire him.

He said Bismarck should have "broken" France in 1870. HP.

That was a stinker indeed and also rather unpatriotic considering how much hope Danes had in Napoleon 3. revenging our humiliation in 1864 and sticking it to those uppity Krauts.

Vive la France! and may Bismarck rot in hell, of course.

I of course respect Antonio's and yours reasons to disagree with me here. I too would have prefered a Denmark which including Altona. But I think a large stable Social Democratic imperial Germany in 1920ties and later to what we got, and that needed a France broken  and preferable without the massive losses of WW1.

There's one factor that would always have prevented a Social Democratic Germany (and that, in fact, did exactly that IRL): the SPD's utter incompetence and stupidity.

SPD pre WW1 was no difference from their Nordic sister parties, except they was a little ahead of them. Without a murder in Sarajevo 1914, we would likely have seen SPD in power in 1916 or 1920. From that point imperial Germany would likely have developed much like the Nordic countries. Instead we got the chaos of the 20ties, the rise of Nazism, a Europe in flames and at last a conservative Germany. Thanks France.

[ingemann]

For reference:

Absolutely horrible. The cowards and terrorists behind this need to be shot or locked up forever.

However, at the same time, I hope (a futile hope, mind you) that people don't overreact respond with hatred, intolerance and mindless knee-jerk xenophobia. I'm sure the last thing these free-thinkers would have wanted is for people to embrace Panzergirl's hatred and racism. Alas, it's France and not Canada.

You know I tend to be a little tired by the whole; "the real victims are the Muslim immigrants" when a Muslim immigrant or a group of Muslim immigrants murders or commit other crimes people. No the real victims are the people killed.

In fact I don't care about the Muslim world's feelings in all this, and the reason I don't care, is becaues in 2001 Bush bend backward not to blame Muslims as a group and people still didn't think it was enough (the hysterics over using the word crusade). They will find a way to blame the victims.

If Muslim immigrants in Europe don't want to be blame, they should do something not to be blame.

Yes I forgot the real victims in the whole Charlie Hebdo slaugther all those poor Muslims whose feelings got hurt. My heart goes out to them.

[ingemann]

SPD pre WW1 was no difference from their Nordic sister parties

That's actually not true at all. I encourage you to read Shari Berman's The Social Democratic Moment, it's an enlightening read (though the chapters on Germany are also soul-crushingly depressing).

You forget that the Nordic countries was not short of its incompetent politicians and they still came out on the top. The stable institution, the strong rule of law and the general stability, allowed the Nordic Social Democrats to use their large public support to gain power and imperial Germany shared those structures, so there are no reason that the Nordic countries wouldn't have served as model for the development of imperial Germany.

BTW thanks for the suggestion for reading material.

[ingemann]

SPD pre WW1 was no difference from their Nordic sister parties

That's actually not true at all. I encourage you to read Shari Berman's The Social Democratic Moment, it's an enlightening read (though the chapters on Germany are also soul-crushingly depressing).

You forget that the Nordic countries was not short of its incompetent politicians and they still came out on the top. The stable institution, the strong rule of law and the general stability, allowed the Nordic Social Democrats to use their large public support to gain power and imperial Germany shared those structures, so there are no reason that the Nordic countries wouldn't have served as model for the development of imperial Germany.

There is a material aspect to it but there is also a crucial ideological component to Nordic Social Democracy's success. They got their ideas right very soon, arguably by the end of the 19th century already. They were prepared to make a constructive use of political power before actually gaining it. Meanwhile in the 1920s the SPD was still struggling with Kautsky's pseudoscientific nonsense, and when they were handed essentially complete control of Germany's institutions they managed to alienate everybody.

But it wasn't like SPD couldn't be pragmatic, their support of the War, was primarily a pragmatic policy, no matter how stupid, short sighted and immoral it may look it hindsight (but let be honest here, the Nordic Social Democrats have their own skeletons in the closet).

[ingemann]

For reference:

Absolutely horrible. The cowards and terrorists behind this need to be shot or locked up forever.

However, at the same time, I hope (a futile hope, mind you) that people don't overreact respond with hatred, intolerance and mindless knee-jerk xenophobia. I'm sure the last thing these free-thinkers would have wanted is for people to embrace Panzergirl's hatred and racism. Alas, it's France and not Canada.

You know I tend to be a little tired by the whole; "the real victims are the Muslim immigrants" when a Muslim immigrant or a group of Muslim immigrants murders or commit other crimes people. No the real victims are the people killed.

In fact I don't care about the Muslim world's feelings in all this, and the reason I don't care, is becaues in 2001 Bush bend backward not to blame Muslims as a group and people still didn't think it was enough (the hysterics over using the word crusade). They will find a way to blame the victims.

If Muslim immigrants in Europe don't want to be blame, they should do something not to be blame.

Yes I forgot the real victims in the whole Charlie Hebdo slaugther all those poor Muslims whose feelings got hurt. My heart goes out to them.

I would guess the bolded part is what people reacted to - what does this actually mean?

Yes I guess it can have several meanings, but in the meaning I meant it, it's a suggestion for Islamic organisation in the West to react active on these acts. Condemn them, but also come with suggestion about what they themselves can do, to de-radicalise the extreme elements among them. Because this is not acts detached from the Muslim community as a whole, this is supported by a significant minority, you really don't get as common act of terror or so many foreign fighters from a "single demographic"* group, unless there's a relative broad groups sharing their views.

When you see most Islamic organisations reactions to this, they seem to see themselves as the real victims of this and mostly think this is sad because it hurt them. It's not a likable reaction, and it's doesn't make non-Muslim friendlier toward Muslims.

*European Muslims are not a single demographic group, but it is a identity marker.

[ingemann]

Yes I guess it can have several meanings, but in the meaning I meant it, it's a suggestion for Islamic organisation in the West to react active on these acts.

they do.

if islamophobic jackasses don't listen, then that's their own fault.

Well I guess your great argument have converted me praise Multi Kulti.

[ingemann]

Yes I guess it can have several meanings, but in the meaning I meant it, it's a suggestion for Islamic organisation in the West to react active on these acts.

they do.

if islamophobic jackasses don't listen, then that's their own fault.

Well I guess your great argument have converted me praise Multi Kulti.

here, for example, is a compilation of muslims condemning isis/l

Praise Multi Kulti

...or you could read the rest of my post, from which the first quote is from. Because I didn't want them say "buh ISIS" I wanted them to come with pro-active suggestion, how they could deal with the radicalisation among their own, and I wanted it from representants from Islamic organisations, not from individual Muslim who carry neither responsibility for these acts or have the prestige to make change in their community.

This is a collective problem, not a individual one.

[ingemann]

Here you go, Ingemann. http://www.judaism-islam.com/muslim-reaction-to-the-charlie-hebdo-massacre/

I disagree with Politicus that we should expect someone without university education to be a bigot. That's actually a wildly offensive statement.

Yes I agree clearly your education hasn't helped broadening your perspective.

[ingemann]

Here you go, Ingemann. http://www.judaism-islam.com/muslim-reaction-to-the-charlie-hebdo-massacre/

I disagree with Politicus that we should expect someone without university education to be a bigot. That's actually a wildly offensive statement.

Yes I agree clearly your education hasn't helped broadening your perspective.

Huh? Not sure where that came from or what you're referring to there.

You mean beside that you translate blue collar into lacking a tertiary education, I work in a blue collar job, because I can earn more doing that, than if I had a job, where I used my tertiary education. This is in no way uncommon, and you even sometimes find a academisation of some of the more specialised blue collar jobs.

I think it's simply because you interact too little or too superficial with people outside your social class, I can also see when I look at the policies you support.

I think you need to interact some more with people who are different from you, and I don't think in superficial aspects like skin colour or religion.