A-Bob Research Center: Secret Ballot Proposal (Mideast)

[Talleyrand]

I'm definitely not voting for anything which doesn't leave any paper trail at all and gives responsibility for counting votes to just 2 people, who could easily fabricate results. The current system works fine, and doesn't stifle turnout. I don't see any reason for implementing this system aside from a power grab, which you basically admitted to earlier.

Why is a secret ballot necessary or desirable?

Apparently a Person wants a permanent Federalist majority.

It's quite evident to me that this move would not have been undertaken by a Federalist Assembly had both hypothetical election administrators would have been from, say, the Labor Party and NM-AM.

[Talleyrand]

My post was a joke.  Had I known that people would've actually taken that serious, I wouldn't have posted it.  (I thought the smiley made that pretty clear...).

Please explain to me how 2 people, from different parties, could "easily fabricate results".  If it would make people more comfortable, I would be willing to add on a second DVBA so that we had 3 people counting the ballots, but again, I'm unclear how it would be easy to fabricate results.

Because there's no paper trail. I could just PM the other administrator and offer his party one position (say the governorship) in exchange for positions for my party (say 2 Assembly seats). All this could happen privately through PM w/o anyone ever hearing about it or second guessing the results. We wouldn't be able to verify anything unless we somehow got every voter to produce a copy of their vote from their outbox, which would defeat the purpose of "secret ballots" (assuming everyone actually saved a copy in their messages, which is nigh impossible).

I see no point to this besides to make voting harder. The current public system leaves a distinct paper trail and is much less prone to silly ambiguities and the whims of one or two people. You know perfectly well how this system could be manipulated, so no need to play dumb.

Why do we need a secret ballot anyway? So people can vote against others without fear of retribution or something? What if that person IS the election administrator? This is an internet game, not a pivotal real world election where privacy actually matters in things like this.

[Talleyrand]

So what were people's reasons for voting against this?  What can the Assembly do to make a better bill that y'all would support?

Honestly, nothing.  This seems like an unnecessary and generally awful bill, IMO.

Why?  What specifically is wrong with it?

What specifically is wrong with our current system? You've admitted that the potential for manipulation exists with this bill in a way that it does not with the current system, so why are we changing it? This is most certainly a Federalist power-grab, and your weak attempts to defend this bill have only proven as much.

[Talleyrand]

So what were people's reasons for voting against this?  What can the Assembly do to make a better bill that y'all would support?

Honestly, nothing.  This seems like an unnecessary and generally awful bill, IMO.

Why?  What specifically is wrong with it?

What specifically is wrong with our current system? You've admitted that the potential for manipulation exists with this bill in a way that it does not with the current system, so why are we changing it? This is most certainly a Federalist power-grab, and your weak attempts to defend this bill have only proven as much.

A Federalist power grab? The bill was a Person's idea ...

Yet it was pushed through by your party and wholeheartedly supported by them. I am 100% certain you would not be doing this had the administrators been Gass and myself for example (when we were in different parties).

I'm still waiting for a good explanation for why this is an improvement over the current system, which you have failed to provide, aside from "now we can have a permanent Federalist majority".

[Talleyrand]

Lol, now you two are trying to play victim and make it seem as if I accused ZuWo of planning to rig the votes? I never said anything of that sort, so that insinuation is not even worth replying to. I trust all of these people, but I don't trust that this system is safe from manipulation in a way which our current one definitely is, whether it stifles secret voting or not. Public voting has worked in Atlasia for 9 years, and I see no reason to remove it as it ACTUALLY LEAVES A PAPER TRAIL so it can be verified.

In the Assembly, it was, I meant, so it's not a load of crap. And once again, Inks, why don't you actually reply to my question instead of making immature attacks like "grow up"? This bill was defeated by the people (if the current vote holds), yet you have the temerity to reintroduce it session after session because it didn't go your way.

This is not a "democracy". This is an internet game and our current system works fine. There's no reason to change the way we've been doing it for years and years.