Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine vetoes bill that would’ve banned gender-affirming care for trans youth (user search)
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  Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine vetoes bill that would’ve banned gender-affirming care for trans youth (search mode)
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Author Topic: Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine vetoes bill that would’ve banned gender-affirming care for trans youth  (Read 1607 times)
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progressive85
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,413
United States
« on: December 29, 2023, 12:33:57 PM »

I say if a politician wants to vote on legislation affecting trans kids, they should have the decency to walk into a room full of them and listen - not talk, but listen, and it seems that this governor did that.  What a shame that others have not.

I predict that one day all of the bans on hormone blockers will be lifted.  That is the most important part because it allows trans teenagers to stop puberty that they will reverse.  With proper counseling and emotional support, they can begin the hormones if they so choose.  Or they can choose not to go on estrogen or testosterone.  The hormone blockers at least delay time.  The last thing a 14-year-old boy wants is to go through female puberty and vice versa.

Ohio is next door to PA, which is my old home state, so this is not a million miles away - this is a very important issue for all trans voters.  Yes we are 1% or less of the country but we shall have the right to our own liberties, especially the liberties of the youngest generations of trans people because they actually have a chance to live much fuller, much happier lives than the older generations.
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progressive85
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,413
United States
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2023, 03:13:00 PM »

I say if a politician wants to vote on legislation affecting trans kids, they should have the decency to walk into a room full of them and listen - not talk, but listen, and it seems that this governor did that.  What a shame that others have not.

I predict that one day all of the bans on hormone blockers will be lifted.  That is the most important part because it allows trans teenagers to stop puberty that they will reverse.  With proper counseling and emotional support, they can begin the hormones if they so choose.  Or they can choose not to go on estrogen or testosterone.  The hormone blockers at least delay time.  The last thing a 14-year-old boy wants is to go through female puberty and vice versa.

Ohio is next door to PA, which is my old home state, so this is not a million miles away - this is a very important issue for all trans voters.  Yes we are 1% or less of the country but we shall have the right to our own liberties, especially the liberties of the youngest generations of trans people because they actually have a chance to live much fuller, much happier lives than the older generations.

A minor can't even get a tattoo, but you want them to be able to get on puberty blockers???

The whole point of puberty blockers is to prevent a trans teenager from going through a puberty that is not in accordance with how they live.  It has to be done when they are a teenager.

This is done to let them go through puberty the way all the other kids do - during the time it's supposed to happen.

This "only until 18" thing doesn't work with puberty because puberty occurs before the age of 18.  Nobody wants to go through puberty when they are 30 years old, that's not what anyone wants.

And I would not object to allowing a 15-year-old to get a small tattoo.  If that was my child that asked for it, I would just say, let's wait a few months and if you really want one, get something tiny like a heart or something.

If I had a child that was trans, I'd most certainly know before they were even close to being a teenager, and I'd let them live how they wanted, and that's the way it is with many families today.

The trans population is as much as it is Kindergarten-age as any other age... these are kids who are already living their lives, and of course there's no need for anything at that age - they can be boys and girls, and just be treated like the other kids.
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progressive85
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,413
United States
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2023, 03:55:59 PM »

I say if a politician wants to vote on legislation affecting trans kids, they should have the decency to walk into a room full of them and listen - not talk, but listen, and it seems that this governor did that.  What a shame that others have not.

I predict that one day all of the bans on hormone blockers will be lifted.  That is the most important part because it allows trans teenagers to stop puberty that they will reverse.  With proper counseling and emotional support, they can begin the hormones if they so choose.  Or they can choose not to go on estrogen or testosterone.  The hormone blockers at least delay time.  The last thing a 14-year-old boy wants is to go through female puberty and vice versa.

Ohio is next door to PA, which is my old home state, so this is not a million miles away - this is a very important issue for all trans voters.  Yes we are 1% or less of the country but we shall have the right to our own liberties, especially the liberties of the youngest generations of trans people because they actually have a chance to live much fuller, much happier lives than the older generations.

A minor can't even get a tattoo, but you want them to be able to get on puberty blockers???

The whole point of puberty blockers is to prevent a trans teenager from going through a puberty that is not in accordance with how they live.  It has to be done when they are a teenager.

This is done to let them go through puberty the way all the other kids do - during the time it's supposed to happen.

This "only until 18" thing doesn't work with puberty because puberty occurs before the age of 18.  Nobody wants to go through puberty when they are 30 years old, that's not what anyone wants.

And I would not object to allowing a 15-year-old to get a small tattoo.  If that was my child that asked for it, I would just say, let's wait a few months and if you really want one, get something tiny like a heart or something.

If I had a child that was trans, I'd most certainly know before they were even close to being a teenager, and I'd let them live how they wanted, and that's the way it is with many families today.

The trans population is as much as it is Kindergarten-age as any other age... these are kids who are already living their lives, and of course there's no need for anything at that age - they can be boys and girls, and just be treated like the other kids.

To paraphrase Lincoln, the differences on this issue are quite simple. You believe trans teenagers and preteens exist and everything operates from that premise. Hence any drawbacks are the hypothetical harm of non trans individuals erroneously being misidentified versus the real harms to Trans youth.

Others do not believe that anyone is Trans. They accept some people feel mentally uncomfortable in their biological body, but they do not believe anyone can actually change their biological gender and therefore at most transition is an effort to treat a mental illness through indulgence. And as the consequence is to worsen the "condition" = successful transition confirms the patient in their beliefs, failed leads to worse mental health and suicide, there is no "successful" treatment through transition.

Part of the issue with coverage in mainstream liberal outlets like the NYT is that the authors are lying about their positions, often to themselves. When they say they are having doubts in the science or on the treatments for minors, they are really saying they are having doubts about the existence of trans individuals full stop. But to admit that to themselves would be terrifying and hence they hide behind ambiguity.

One of two things will happen. Either the first belief will prevail or the second group will pull off the mask, engage in battle and triumph



It's my belief that it has to do with the brain - not because it's mentally ill but because the brain is of another sex.

It seems extremely plausible to me that a small minority of babies are born with the brains of the opposite sex.

That is the basis of my belief.  Thus, a trans boy is already a boy the day he is born.  A trans girl is already a girl the day they are born, and that is because the brain is the most important part of the person.

A baby born with both genitalia or none could be assigned a sex at birth.  But what is the brain sex, and how do you know?

So I believe that is it possible for a woman to live her entire life in a man's body - and for a man to live his entire life in a woman's body. 

Transitioning does not have to occur.  I am a 38-year-old woman who is living inside a man's body.  I know what my sex is, but I am not on estrogen.  I've never had an operation to change anything.  This is the way trans people have lived for most of human history...

I didn't wake up one morning and say, "Gee I feel like a woman."  I've felt this way since I was four years old.  It occurs very early in childhood.  It was not because of an "overbearing mother" or a "distant father" or any of that garbage.  I had both a feminine mother and a masculine father that were wonderful parents... but I knew when I was 4... and I'm 38 now and I still know.  It's not going away.

It's something many of us know very early on, usually around the age of 4 or 5.  It's actually a very clear (to the child) understanding and you don't need any words such as "transgender" or anything to know what it is.  It's very apparent.

The brain holds the key to understanding all of these LGBTQ issues because that's where it is that makes people that way.
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progressive85
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,413
United States
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2023, 02:15:31 AM »
« Edited: December 30, 2023, 02:20:05 AM by Super-Size the Freedom Fries »

I say if a politician wants to vote on legislation affecting trans kids, they should have the decency to walk into a room full of them and listen - not talk, but listen, and it seems that this governor did that.  What a shame that others have not.

I predict that one day all of the bans on hormone blockers will be lifted.  That is the most important part because it allows trans teenagers to stop puberty that they will reverse.  With proper counseling and emotional support, they can begin the hormones if they so choose.  Or they can choose not to go on estrogen or testosterone.  The hormone blockers at least delay time.  The last thing a 14-year-old boy wants is to go through female puberty and vice versa.

Ohio is next door to PA, which is my old home state, so this is not a million miles away - this is a very important issue for all trans voters.  Yes we are 1% or less of the country but we shall have the right to our own liberties, especially the liberties of the youngest generations of trans people because they actually have a chance to live much fuller, much happier lives than the older generations.

A minor can't even get a tattoo, but you want them to be able to get on puberty blockers???

The whole point of puberty blockers is to prevent a trans teenager from going through a puberty that is not in accordance with how they live.  It has to be done when they are a teenager.

This is done to let them go through puberty the way all the other kids do - during the time it's supposed to happen.

This "only until 18" thing doesn't work with puberty because puberty occurs before the age of 18.  Nobody wants to go through puberty when they are 30 years old, that's not what anyone wants.

And I would not object to allowing a 15-year-old to get a small tattoo.  If that was my child that asked for it, I would just say, let's wait a few months and if you really want one, get something tiny like a heart or something.

If I had a child that was trans, I'd most certainly know before they were even close to being a teenager, and I'd let them live how they wanted, and that's the way it is with many families today.

The trans population is as much as it is Kindergarten-age as any other age... these are kids who are already living their lives, and of course there's no need for anything at that age - they can be boys and girls, and just be treated like the other kids.
I don't think teenagers should be able to take puberty blockers or be able to transition at all.

Why? I do not think any teenager can make such a life altering choice.

The lives are already being lived.  There isn't a change in many of the cases.  They're already living as boys or girls.  

I don't think people understand that times have changed.  Caitlyn Jenner is the old generation - they had no choice but to live their lives the way they did, and their mental states suffered greatly because of it.

The future of this issue is about protecting trans kids and kids meaning kids, not even teenagers.

The anti-trans side here is living in the world of 1990 when a grown man like Bruce decides to "become a woman" (all of a sudden).  Conjuring up the image of a man in a dress, the "transsexual" on Jerry Springer.

In the world of 2024, it's the 9 year old child going to school.

It'll take time, but eventually people will realize that this is about fetal development.  I truly believe in learning more about the science behind it.  The brain is exposed to chemicals while it is developing in the womb - hormonal elements, and possibly genetic causes...

this is a much more complex issue but it has been sensationalized by the media for decades.

But there is no choice, because no one would choose it.  Nobody would choose to be trans... why, when you don't have to be?
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progressive85
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,413
United States
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2023, 03:19:09 PM »

I can only speak from my own life, which is of course why this issue is the most important to me on a personal level that one can only understand when they've lived 38 years this way.

I am basically what happens to a trans person when they do not transition - I'm "the bad transgender", in other words, because I'm not what the media wants to see.  I can't walk around as a happy trans woman.  I'm not Sarah McBride, or Caitlyn Jenner.

I "detransitioned" three times - in the past 12 years.  Each time I did it I did it because I felt that the process was too much to handle emotionally.  The hope was initially there, but I could not proceed with it.  Really it's because of what I look like most of all, but there's other parts of it - it requires a lot of courage, which I don't have.  It requires a LOT of money as well.

We live in a world where our faces and our bodies seem to matter more than who we are inside.  There's a preoccupation with physical beauty standards that some of us are not able to live up to.

Like I keep saying, taking hormone blockers, hormones, and having operations is not recommended for everyone.  No one should be pressured into going down that path unless they are already living in that sex, and the longer the better.

Counseling is very important, but it must explain all of the choices, and it must be done with the parents because having the supportive family is necessary.  Most importantly is actually good faith-based, spiritual counseling, but affirming counseling, not conversion therapy.  Trans kids, trans teens, trans adults, all of them need to be grounded in a spiritual place and this also applies to the broader LGBTQ population.

It's very sad that there's a very tall wall when it comes to religion and LGBTQ because it's many of the LGBTQ that need God the most.  Not to change them or have them "repent their sins", but to provide comfort, to provide healing, to provide love.  Sometimes the best therapy is spiritual therapy, which you aren't really going to always get from the psychiatric world.
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