Electoral Reform Amendment/Statute

[Akno21]

Perhaps ties should be broken by a vote of the Senate?

Why don't we let the Sec. of State do it? I know there's no logic behind that, but it gives him something to do.

[Akno21]

The importance of party support needs to be strengthened somehow.  Given the natiure of early Atlasian votes such as those quoted by Nym90 below:

It's interesting that in the first election last February, these were all considered valid votes:

I vote for the GOP ticket!

I vote for the GOP ticket.

Is this how one votes? Just post? Obviously I vote GOP.

Perhaps we could add something to allow for a party-line ticket and instead of having being just a single P/VP slate, it would be a complete list of preferences.  Of course people could still come up with individualized ballots, but it would give a discernable advantage to being an orgaized party, if it was simpler to vote a party list of preferences than an individual ballot.

Someone else could come up with something like this if they wanted to.  I personally would like to see parties become less important.  We should be voting for a person, not a party.  The party isn't going to be the one holding the office.

On a diagonal from Gabu: I would prefer a strong multi-party system to a strong two-party system, although I do sympathize with his desire to have more voting by person than by party. On the other hand, I can just see all the "D" and "R" straight-party votes cast by newbies already...ugh (I dislike straight-party votes IRL).

I'm not advocating that we abolish parties or something.  It's just that I don't particularly the thought of having more stuff like this:

I'm here and I'm voting for the republicans...whoever they are.

Is it really healthy for our country to allow voters to vote when they don't even have a clue who the people are who they're even voting for?  I think that it should at least be a requirement that you should know who the candidates are.

This isn't a jab at StevenNick, I'm just using his post as an excellent example of what I'm talking about.

I agree with you, actually, and I would venture to say that the last election definitely showed that this is a problem...

True, although less blatently. You had some people do the "right thing" such as Defarge and Julien, for example.

[Akno21]

I agree with you, actually, and I would venture to say that the last election definitely showed that this is a problem...

True, although less blatently. You had some people do the "right thing" such as Defarge and Julien, for example.

A few lights in the murky sea of the election...

It was a little bit harder to be partisan in D4, although I will say that every bloody red avatar in D4 voted for Harry. ;-P

Stick your grievences to D1. And keep in mind True Democrat turned out to be a good Senator. I understand the Super/Bulldog race, but TD did a good job, even if he didn't have Andrew's credentials.

[Akno21]

I agree with you, actually, and I would venture to say that the last election definitely showed that this is a problem...

True, although less blatently. You had some people do the "right thing" such as Defarge and Julien, for example.

A few lights in the murky sea of the election...

It was a little bit harder to be partisan in D4, although I will say that every bloody red avatar in D4 voted for Harry. ;-P

Stick your grievences to D1. And keep in mind True Democrat turned out to be a good Senator. I understand the Super/Bulldog race, but TD did a good job, even if he didn't have Andrew's credentials.

True Democrat was good, but I haven't seen Bulldog around since.

And that's why I see your point in that race, but Super did win, and fairly comfortably at that.

[Akno21]

I agree with you, actually, and I would venture to say that the last election definitely showed that this is a problem...

True, although less blatently. You had some people do the "right thing" such as Defarge and Julien, for example.

A few lights in the murky sea of the election...

It was a little bit harder to be partisan in D4, although I will say that every bloody red avatar in D4 voted for Harry. ;-P

Stick your grievences to D1. And keep in mind True Democrat turned out to be a good Senator. I understand the Super/Bulldog race, but TD did a good job, even if he didn't have Andrew's credentials.

Touchy? But as I said elsewhere I favor a multi-party system over a two-party system. The less this looks like American politics the happier I'll be.

I want to see an old-fashioned primary though. With so many parties people can just go to whichever one will nominate them.

[Akno21]

I agree with you, actually, and I would venture to say that the last election definitely showed that this is a problem...

True, although less blatently. You had some people do the "right thing" such as Defarge and Julien, for example.

A few lights in the murky sea of the election...

It was a little bit harder to be partisan in D4, although I will say that every bloody red avatar in D4 voted for Harry. ;-P

Stick your grievences to D1. And keep in mind True Democrat turned out to be a good Senator. I understand the Super/Bulldog race, but TD did a good job, even if he didn't have Andrew's credentials.

Touchy? But as I said elsewhere I favor a multi-party system over a two-party system. The less this looks like American politics the happier I'll be.

I want to see an old-fashioned primary though. With so many parties people can just go to whichever one will nominate them.

Eh, I like complex general elections better. It's more likely that candidates will try to get multiple party endorsements, as in the upcoming Presidential race. But y'all can hold primaries if you want - it's not really the place of those not in the party to pick your candidate.

And a tad more seriously, I have been fascinated by how the party structure in Atlasia has evolved from the R-D (and then Prog.) structure to something much more reflective of the ideological and political diversity of Atlasia. I'd hate to be an independent floating between the R's and the D's again.

I still want to see a long, fought out primary with more than 2 candidates. And it would be nice if parties could run candidates in all Senate elections.

[Akno21]

I agree with you, actually, and I would venture to say that the last election definitely showed that this is a problem...

True, although less blatently. You had some people do the "right thing" such as Defarge and Julien, for example.

A few lights in the murky sea of the election...

It was a little bit harder to be partisan in D4, although I will say that every bloody red avatar in D4 voted for Harry. ;-P

Stick your grievences to D1. And keep in mind True Democrat turned out to be a good Senator. I understand the Super/Bulldog race, but TD did a good job, even if he didn't have Andrew's credentials.

Touchy? But as I said elsewhere I favor a multi-party system over a two-party system. The less this looks like American politics the happier I'll be.

I want to see an old-fashioned primary though. With so many parties people can just go to whichever one will nominate them.

Eh, I like complex general elections better. It's more likely that candidates will try to get multiple party endorsements, as in the upcoming Presidential race. But y'all can hold primaries if you want - it's not really the place of those not in the party to pick your candidate.

And a tad more seriously, I have been fascinated by how the party structure in Atlasia has evolved from the R-D (and then Prog.) structure to something much more reflective of the ideological and political diversity of Atlasia. I'd hate to be an independent floating between the R's and the D's again.

I still want to see a long, fought out primary with more than 2 candidates. And it would be nice if parties could run candidates in all Senate elections.

I'm not sure all parties have that many members. I mean, the Freedom Party has so many members in government already I'm not sure where we would even get 3 candidates! ;-P

And not all parties have enough members in all Senate districts to run there, either. I won in D4 because I picked up votes from all over the place, green, blue, and orange avatars alike (the yellows sat this election out, for some reason).

No one says people have to vote along party lines, but it would be nice if there were more candidates in general. When the voting population goes up to about 200 active members, it will be a lot more interesting.

[Akno21]

Ahem... sorry to be a party pooper, but can we take this dialogue to another topic?  It's a good argument to be had; it's just that this isn't really a good place for it.

Sure.

[Akno21]

If it is a truely unbreakable tie, it would make more sense to split the term in half between the two candidates than to resort to number picking.

[Akno21]

Split the term into two two-month terms instead of one four monther. Candidate A serves until the next group of Senators are sworn in 2 months later. It makes more sense than letting the Governor's decide, that is not their duty.

[Akno21]

Split the term into two two-month terms instead of one four monther. Candidate A serves until the next group of Senators are sworn in 2 months later. It makes more sense than letting the Governor's decide, that is not their duty.

Maybe we could have both Senators serve, increasing the size of the Senate by 1?  I'm not sure about that idea, but I don't think it's really fair to the one serving the first half if that person wants to run for re-election.  If we do go with that idea, how would we pick which senator gets the first term and which gets the second?

Also, that wouldn't solve ties that occur before the last round in an election, and in the unlikely but nevertheless possible case that we have, say, a three-way unbreakable tie between candidates, we don't want to just keep splitting up the term.  I feel that there must be a better way.

I feel that better represents the will of the people than having people who aren't even their district decide. They would pick on their own, perhaps one could have 3 months, than the other guy gets a month plus incumbency.

I don't think there is a better way that uses the will of that district and not the will of the nation as a whole.

[Akno21]

*bump*

Those who objected to what Gabu and I came up with really need to go into detail on why their ideas are better.

No secret numbers. Split the term. Other than that, it's good.

A long, hard campaign shouldn't be decided in a totally random fashion. Splitting the term is a fair way to do it, and one that leaves both sides not feeling cheated. It also keeps the decision in the hands of the voters, and doesn't let someone all the way across the country decide.

[Akno21]

Splitting terms is a terrible idea.  What senator serves the first half and which serves the second half.  It wouldn't happen in a real government and it is not at all good for Atlasia. 

The only way to settle an unbreakable tie is some sort of random contest. A coin toss is not plausible, but the random number game is a perfectly random way to decide the election.

I agree a runoff should be held before the random # game is done.

Why decide it randomly? A tight campaign should never come down to luck in that way.

Who cares that it wouldn't normally happen in the real world?

I think the two candidates could work it out between themselves. Also, I would be in favor of giving one 3 months and the other 1 month plus incumbency.

[Akno21]

I like it.

[Akno21]

Gabu, could you point out the most recent version of the amendment and statute so we can begin voting?

Er, can we extend debate for one more week?  We're very close, but we're still not quite at the point where this can be voted on yet, as there are still changes people would like made.

I agree with Gabu - getting agreement on this bill is like herding cats. ;-P

Well, as far as I can tell, all we need to fix now is the issue of what to do in the event of a tie.  If we can either get Supersoulty to agree to the above idea or to agree to extend the debate and then work something out in a week, we'll be good.

You realize this doesn't have to be approved 10-0?

[Akno21]

Gabu, could you point out the most recent version of the amendment and statute so we can begin voting?

Er, can we extend debate for one more week?  We're very close, but we're still not quite at the point where this can be voted on yet, as there are still changes people would like made.

I agree with Gabu - getting agreement on this bill is like herding cats. ;-P

Well, as far as I can tell, all we need to fix now is the issue of what to do in the event of a tie.  If we can either get Supersoulty to agree to the above idea or to agree to extend the debate and then work something out in a week, we'll be good.

You realize this doesn't have to be approved 10-0?

Yes, but I don't exactly want to simply ram it through without consideration of everyone else.  If we absolutely cannot reach an equitable solution, then I'll just leave it and hope for the best, but I hope to accomodate as many people as possible.

Have any other Senators aside from yourself, WMS, and Supersoulty chimed in on this?