If Plato was alive today and a poster on Atlas....

[Gustaf]

So, wait, BRTD's latest attack on me is that maybe I would have sided with one of the greatest minds of all time rather than a bunch of autistic teen nerds with a mob mentality, defending said mind's right to free expression?

...guilty as charged?

I think I'm going to give up on trying to understand the logic of BRTD. Did you read an internet meme bashing Plato or something?

[Gustaf]

So, wait, BRTD's latest attack on me is that maybe I would have sided with one of the greatest minds of all time rather than a bunch of autistic teen nerds with a mob mentality, defending said mind's right to free expression?

...guilty as charged?

I think I'm going to give up on trying to understand the logic of BRTD. Did you read an internet meme bashing Plato or something?

It's more that you frequently defend unpopular and awful posters who are extremely hackish and quite narrow minded and thick skulled for seemingly no reason at all but to be contrarian.

My dislike of Plato stems from reading his stuff in one of my Ancient and Medieval Political Philosophy classes, where he came across an extreme elitist douchebag, and his ideal "Republic" was a terrifying ideal and a horrible form of government. Just about everyone in the class hated him.

Nice going with the wormyguy/Kyle Mercado style ad hominem in the first paragraph by the way ("LOLZ ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS AUTISTIC HA HA!" was a pretty common tactic of those two.)

That it is seemingly for no reason might be because you're a thick-skulled hack who can't understand logical arguments or other people very well. Just as a theory.

Well, if everyone in your class hated him I guess it's time for you to revolutionize our understanding of philosophical history. You should teach classes on these insights.

Nice going with the guilt by association ad hominem.

It's not an ad hominem. You're obsessed with picking sides and who one agrees with. I'm pointing out that pretty much everyone on this board (including myself) is basically an idiot compared to Plato. So it's amusing that you think that just because there are so many idiots they must be more correct than someone who actually has brains. That mob mentality is what I was referring to and it's fallacious and scary.

You should consider reading a book every once in a while, instead of just watching Family Guy. Maybe you would start getting things.

[Gustaf]

That was a great post.

Gustaf's rebuttal reminds me of Libertas. "You can't get it because you're also a thick skulled hack." I mean look at my predictions (they are visible on my profile), if anything they have on average been a bit more conservative than reality. I underestimated Obama's performance both times in fact. I'll admit to being rather partisan, but not hackish.

All I'll say is that I sure as hell don't want to live in some totalitarian "Republic" ruled by "Philosopher Kings" anymore than I want to live in a so-called Randian Objectivist society or Leninist regime. And one could also argue that Rand and Lenin were intelligent people as well, does that make what they wrote worthy of value? But that's not really the point here, it's a debate for another forum. I just thought that anyone with Plato's views in the modern day would disgust probably well over 90% of the population but Gustaf just loves defending such people for seemingly no reason than to be contrarian (see also Sarah Palin) yet also mercilessly rips into people that are somewhat controversial but also more polarized in opinion and not as universally hated (in addition to me see how he constantly gets on px.) But meh. What Gustaf thinks of me affects me and is just as relevant as what Libertas or Kyle Mercado did, so whatever. The thread was worth it regardless just for Linus' post, so this was definitely a net plus.

Do you not realize how little sense you're making? What I write reminds you of Libertas? So? How is that relevant for anything? These things you say really aren't coherent.

Plato was not only a political philosopher. And since I'm not an idiot, like you, I can hold nuanced opinions of people. So while I also oppose his ideal society, I can recognize that his views on that is probably heavily influenced by his time and the experience of Athens killing Socrates. And I can appreciate Plato's writings in general and on other subjects.

Your attitude to these things is so infantile that it defies comprehension.

Anyway, you really think that it is a negative thing to not agree with the majority? That disliking someone who is popular is somehow bad? See, the value of critical thinking is something Plato could probably explain to you if you gave him a chance.

[Gustaf]

Yeah, I should perhaps add that I don't agree with much of Plato's philosophy either. Kalwejt sums it up nicely.

Oh, and I also enjoyed the Plato parody. Good job.

[Gustaf]

That was a great post.

Gustaf's rebuttal reminds me of Libertas. "You can't get it because you're also a thick skulled hack." I mean look at my predictions (they are visible on my profile), if anything they have on average been a bit more conservative than reality. I underestimated Obama's performance both times in fact. I'll admit to being rather partisan, but not hackish.

All I'll say is that I sure as hell don't want to live in some totalitarian "Republic" ruled by "Philosopher Kings" anymore than I want to live in a so-called Randian Objectivist society or Leninist regime. And one could also argue that Rand and Lenin were intelligent people as well, does that make what they wrote worthy of value? But that's not really the point here, it's a debate for another forum. I just thought that anyone with Plato's views in the modern day would disgust probably well over 90% of the population but Gustaf just loves defending such people for seemingly no reason than to be contrarian (see also Sarah Palin) yet also mercilessly rips into people that are somewhat controversial but also more polarized in opinion and not as universally hated (in addition to me see how he constantly gets on px.) But meh. What Gustaf thinks of me affects me and is just as relevant as what Libertas or Kyle Mercado did, so whatever. The thread was worth it regardless just for Linus' post, so this was definitely a net plus.

Do you not realize how little sense you're making? What I write reminds you of Libertas? So? How is that relevant for anything? These things you say really aren't coherent.

Plato was not only a political philosopher. And since I'm not an idiot, like you, I can hold nuanced opinions of people. So while I also oppose his ideal society, I can recognize that his views on that is probably heavily influenced by his time and the experience of Athens killing Socrates. And I can appreciate Plato's writings in general and on other subjects.

Your attitude to these things is so infantile that it defies comprehension.

Anyway, you really think that it is a negative thing to not agree with the majority? That disliking someone who is popular is somehow bad? See, the value of critical thinking is something Plato could probably explain to you if you gave him a chance.

Oh yeah I'm an idiot. That's why I was just running training for a very technical-intensive job this week and was selected by the Division Manager to substitute for supervisors because of technical knowledge and ability to answer questions when many were gone the past few weeks.

I don't know where you get this idea from that I never ever show any nuance and never have in my 67000 posts. Sure I often get pretty passionate and use some extreme rhetoric. But that doesn't mean there's no nuance on anything. I just made this post only a day ago:

I kind of agree on a lot of the good things LBJ doing being inevitable, it kind of reminds me of the Nader apologists who argue that Nader is the only reason cars have seat belts today (because obviously without Nader no one else would ever propose or push for legislation mandating them and they wouldn't become a standard feature every car company would include anyway even if not mandated. So dumb.) It's pretty absurd to believe that without LBJ segregation and the type of voter suppression present in the South at the time would've survived to the present day and that there would've never been any Civil Rights Act or court decisions against them in the last 50 years. However that doesn't mean the situation today would not have been worse had that action not been taken early. And as far as the Great Society goes, most of those programs were not necessarily inevitable.

It's just as annoying though to defend him by arguing that Vietnam as it turned out (or a similar war) was inevitable as well no matter who was President.

And really considering one of the people I was thinking of that was unpopular but still inexplicably defended by you was CARLHAYDEN...uh well I'll just say that if you seriously think he was a poster who normally held very nuanced opinions and never delved into extreme black and white dichotomies, then, well I don't think much more needs to be said...

Anyway my view is basically that Plato's political philosophy is so awful it eclipses anything else he wrote. It's like Hugo Chavez actually (hey I actually have a more nuanced view on him than most right wingers do!), his authoritarianism and awful associations invalidated the good things he did that were brought up so much recently. It most certainly puts him behind Aristotle who didn't get anywhere near as  much of a negative reaction from the class or me. And it's clear he was a personal asshole.

But my point (along with this thread obviously) was never too serious. This is a political forum, so if someone started posting on it advocating Platonic government, they would be labeled and troll and be unpopular. And you have a tendency to defend such posters. It was just a jocular statement and the fact you took it so seriously is just more evidence of how little of a sense of humor you have.

It's amusing that you think you can lecture me on having a sense of humour. That's another concept I remain unconvinced that you get. But if this thread was a self-parody I'll admit it was a job well done.

And that you know how to repair iPhones or whatever isn't really what I'm talking about. My brother is doing that and he's 19.

It's amusing that you took my statement of liking nuance as it being hypocritical of me to ever defend an unnuanced person. I think you just made my point quite well. Maybe I am taking this too seriously, actually. Looking back at your post I guess it was all really self-parody wasn't it? "I'm entitled to discuss Plato because I work with tech stuff!"

Well done, hat off to you. As a tip though, if you ever showcased a persona other than idiocy mixed with mental illness it would be easier to tell when it was just an act. 

(and I hope the part about the thread being a joke was a meta-joke because that really isn't funny)