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Poll
Question: Which date was more important?
#1
4 July 1776
 
#2
14 July 1789
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 23

Author Topic: More historical date  (Read 1225 times)
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« on: July 16, 2017, 10:16:35 PM »

Objectively, it's hard to imagine the American Revolution succeeding without setting into motion the causes of the French. Without French support, the Revolution would have collapsed by 1780, although the British would have gained little from it. Indeed, while there would have been some attempt at patching over the discontent, America would've remained a seething anthology, ready to bite the British lion at the least excuse. Had the French left us to fester, the British might well have never become masters of India and they certainly would not have been so interested in Australia.

Furthermore, without the strain on the royal fisc to little gain, Louis XVI certainly would not have called the Estates-General into session in 1789. There would have been no center of opposition to the crown as well as less of it. Even if one thinks a French Revolution inevitable, and frankly Louis XVI did much to make it so, it would've happened later had France not intervened in our tax revolt.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2017, 12:22:34 AM »

I can understand why Americans would say their revolution, but really, the more important one was the French. It's not even a contest.

Modern democratic politics itself is a legacy of the French Revolution.
To say that modern democratic politics is a legacy of the French Revolution is not just an overstatement, but it is flat out wrong. At best, one can say that it served as a catalyst that caused a number of trends in European politics to proceed explosively but those trends had been evident well before the Revolution and considering the counterrevolutionary trends that happened in reaction, in the long term, it's doubtful the French Revolution had any long term impact save one, the Code Napoléon, and that more because it became the primary example of codified civil law rather than it being the inspiration for it.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2017, 01:08:30 PM »

I can understand why Americans would say their revolution, but really, the more important one was the French. It's not even a contest.

Modern democratic politics itself is a legacy of the French Revolution.
To say that modern democratic politics is a legacy of the French Revolution is not just an overstatement, but it is flat out wrong. At best, one can say that it served as a catalyst that caused a number of trends in European politics to proceed explosively but those trends had been evident well before the Revolution and considering the counterrevolutionary trends that happened in reaction, in the long term, it's doubtful the French Revolution had any long term impact save one, the Code Napoléon, and that more because it became the primary example of codified civil law rather than it being the inspiration for it.

Please read a book about modern European history before making these posts.

Actually, I'm in the middle of re-reading a history of the Holy Roman Empire, Heart of Europe,  right now. While the Enlightenment which precipitated the French Revolution had a major impact on the development of European politics, to ascribe those developments to the French Revolution itself is to mistake the symptom for the cause.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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Posts: 42,144
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« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2017, 10:33:13 PM »

Yes, we would have had German and Italian nationalism without the French Revolution. Napoleon's ability to tap into the already existing desires of the people is one reason he had the successes he did. 1789 was when the fuse was lit, but its spark would have been for naught if there had been no powder keg to blow. So it boils down to what's more important, the spark or the bomb. The American Revolution provided the final leavening of saltpeter without which the French Revolution would have been only a flash in a pan instead of an explosion.
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