People who take one doctrine of a religion wildly out of context...

[Keystone Phil]

Well, perhaps you would be more exacerbated if you had been spending the last two months combating soundbytes and misrepresentations with long elocutions the way I have

As if I don't have any experience in having to do that

The Catholic Church is fair game - any autocratic, debate stifling institution is. Catholicism is another matter and I don't think anyone here is attacking the Catholic rite.

And yes the Church does give the impression of being outdated boyf#ckers. It's their fault, it's their failing and it's ordinary Catholics who have to distance themselves from the Churches lumbering inactivity and dispel any notions that lay Catholics and the Catholic faith is a f#cked up as the Church.

The Church gives the impression of being outdated "boyf--kers" because a few priests have chosen to do so and some people tried to cover it up? They give the impression that they are corrupt and want it covered up but that doesn't give the impression that they promote "boyf--king."

[Keystone Phil]

So people like myself end up having to explain; 'We're not a communion of boyf#ckers, the Church is wrong, the Church is not transparent and hasn't dealt with the problem, most Catholics are unhappy with their inaction and for the record I believe celibacy should be an optional vow.' Basically lots of 'and, and, and's'

Well, I disagree with a lot of that. Being a "boyf--ker" and supporting celebacy are two totally different things. The Church has acted on the molestation issues and celebacy should not be optional. But hey, that's just my opinion.

[Keystone Phil]

I also think that celibacy; the suppression of sexual desire is psychological unhealthy unless you can cope with it. Many people cannot and nor do I think there is good reason to expect them to. When put in positions of authority and trust some have stepped the line. I'm not solely talking about sexual abuse of minors, I also mean 'inappropriate' relationships with male and female parishioners.

Many can't deal with it? We know of few incidents of abuse and relationships with male and female adults. Are you really in a position to say many can't deal with being celibant?

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That's a shame and it only feeds into the stereotype. However, I don't believe this is the norm. The priest who had the straight affair would have been removed also.

[Keystone Phil]

He wasn't.

Ok, I understand that. I was saying that it would have been the norm to remove both priests. I'm sorry that you have one example of the contrary happening.

[Keystone Phil]

I could provide many, many more. But that's not the point. At what point does the Church cease to be a universal communion and then calls problems amongst it's clergy and it's organisation 'regional' or 'local'?. Answer; when it is convenient for it to do so.

I'm saying that a problem which may be local doesn't necessarily mean it is a widespread problem. The Vatican was involved in the America-centered sex abuse scandals and I'd hope that they'd act on these other scandals elsewhere though I don't know much about them.

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Again, the Church has acted in the scandals I am familiar with but does that stop these ignorant assholes from calling Catholic priests a bunch of "boyf--kers?" No, absolutely not. There are people out there that simply don't like us, my friend. Take a look at our pal BRTD. Do you think any action by the Church would change his mind? The sad thing is that there are enough people that think the way he does in regards to the Church and the sex abuse scandals.