UK General Discussion

[Leftbehind]

Well it suits them enormously if their first introduction to him for many is rigging Labour internal elections, and it risks - with days of coverage over it and escalation in a bid to appear tough - ever more likely to be. 

[Leftbehind]

A question I've been trying to mull over for the past few days that I'm sure you lot can try and answer for me:

With such a massive drop-off for the LibDems since the election, what is the "image" of a stereotypical Liberal Democrat voter in their remaining 8-12% base? What sections of society remain (relatively) strong for them?

We, of course, know (generally) what kind of people the Liberals have lost, but who's left still voting for them?

English afleitch's.

[Leftbehind]

Seems to be a collective "WTF!?" aimed at the Guardian after their antics on the unions story a few days ago.

Which turn out to be true...

So Ed's effectively diluting union and members influence (going around the unions via opt-in and bringing in primaries).

[Leftbehind]

Another hugely unpopular privatisation that in all likelihood won't get reversed. Hard not to despair.

[Leftbehind]

Another hugely unpopular privatisation that in all likelihood won't get reversed. Hard not to despair.

They all start out unpopular, but apart from Gas and Rail, where there's either no competition or consumer inertia/oligopolies and, they have been obviously good and popular choices with little to no bad side effects. Most of them are now seen to be completely normal (ie BT, BA ThomasCook, Jaguar (which will cause a boom in Wolverhampton!!),Corus, Gleneagles Hotel, Pickfords removals). I don't see Royal Mail being much different, as it has lots of competition and room for manouvre, and lots of incentives to co-operate and compete with others for best and/or cheapest service. Unless your idea of socialism is to prevent large private businesses from even existing, or to satick up for many of the incompetent postpersons they are compelled to employ, I don't see the practical objection. And I'm no Burkean Tory, so I'm not bothered if they replace the Queen's head.

Well firstly I am one of those socialists, but the following poll results:

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...shows you fans of privatisation are no more representative of UK opinion. Certainly shows the public are far from settled on either BT or BA, and generally favour nationalisation of our services, competition or no - remarkable, since no major party has been making the case for it for decades. Of course, it's not to keep right-wing bollocks like compelling keeping on incompetent postpersons, but because they know fine well that their services will inevitably suffer and prices will rise when the profiteering capitalist vampires get their teeth into it.

I... er... wouldn't include Corus on a list of supposedly successful privatisations if I were you... the privatisation of steel has been almost as disastrous as the privatisation of coal (back in the news at the moment, of course) and that was supposed to be disastrous...

In any event, any list of questionable privatisations should include water (which is a public scandal, frankly) as well as the entire energy sector.

Anyway, there are a lot of surprisingly remote rural areas in the UK. I grew up in one (not far from where you live, actually). Places like that are going to be so screwed by this.

Yeah, Corus has been an unmitigated disaster. But more importantly that latter point is spot on - what's the betting the rural hard-to-reach areas either become devoid of a service, or more likely the government will inevitably keep RM subsidised for precisely that, but now with all the profitable areas removed that used to subsidise them, ending up costing the UK exchequer more than when it was nationalised? Just like we see with the subsidies for buses and trains.

[Leftbehind]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/07/18/nhs-bain-capital_n_3616118.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Erm...

Well I can't see myself ever donating blood again. Another widely unpopular, borderline-criminal sell-off that you wouldn't bet on being reversed. You've got to stop and admire the ruthless efficiency of Tory governments at delivering their ideology (neoliberalism), whereas contemporary Labour governments just feel like caretakers, fiddling around the edges but one-by-one accepting all the stuff they inherited with little question. You can see it already in the ruddlerless and passionless opposition. I still think Labour will win the next general election, but the Tories have already won in any meaningful sense.

[Leftbehind]

It's been awful all week. It's easy for Aussies to sn when they've all installed air conditioning etc

F**king bring on the rain!

[Leftbehind]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23450435

Interesting that despite the post-coalition upturn in Labour membership they weren't far off matching the Liberal's 6k drop last year. Can't say it's too surprising, mind.

[Leftbehind]

Most of the other people who were named as new Peers yesterday, however, pretty clearly bought their peerages in the traditional manner.

Abolish the f**king thing.

[Leftbehind]

Most of the other people who were named as new Peers yesterday, however, pretty clearly bought their peerages in the traditional manner.

Abolish the f**king thing.

Bring back the Hereditary Peers.

The more the merrier - to be abolished.

[Leftbehind]

With Labour's raft of Euro candidates, it's looking likely I'll vote Labour in 2014, depending of course on what I see from the candidates since. North East is basically FPTP anyway - pretty much a choice between 2 Lab : 1 Con/UKIP or all three with one apiece.

[Leftbehind]

Second Chamber is a much more fitting name than Lords anyways. Though I wonder why the hell they still called it "the Palace of Westminster".

Neither are particularly appropriate. How about Home for former politicians & wealthy donators?

[Leftbehind]

Bryant's was a legitimate case argued badly, even so infinitely better reasoned than driving a van around the country telling illegal immigrants to go home (in a transparent PR bid to appear to be 'doing something' - even if that something is employing racial profiling and wasting everyone's time, money and resources). Bryant/Labour look to be at worst, incompetent. Tories look like equally incompetent racists.

[Leftbehind]

You could just as easily add the 10% coalition-friendly market-liberals to the Right figure. Hell, I think that'd perfectly sum up how poor Labour and the Left as a whole are doing at present - Labour seems to have lost upto a third of their post-coalition gains in the past year (and not undeservedly).  

But really, the issue there isn't that we've all become right-wing neoliberals, quite the opposite: tax-the-rich and nationalisations are more popular than ever* - it's just the current state of opinion being poorly reflected by the main parties, and the UKIP momentum. So sure, objectively the Right is doing absurdly well in terms of vote share, but if you were to, say - as has been posited as a possibility - introduce an alliance between Tory/UKIP, you'll see their vote deflate quicker than a soufflé.

*and I distinctly remember seeing polling showing protest-friendly-UKIP voters supporting nationalisation moreso than present Liberals, despite being a professedly 'libertarian' party, aiming to buy policies off the shelf from IEA. But then UKIP, don't even know their policies, let alone WWC voters they've attracted by their anti-EU/immigration policies.

[Leftbehind]

Pelter was a (D) Miliband supporter who thinks (E) Miliband doesn't stand up for the poor.

Where is the f**king logic in that?! Seems the media love-in on D. Miliband has worked a treat.

[Leftbehind]

Indeed, you have to be middle class as well.

[Leftbehind]

Ah, but there's no point in looking at this in terms of individuals. You can only look at this sort of thing in an at all honest way at a social level. Because while some people from ordinary backgrounds will indeed be sufficiently full of themselves to be alright in that sort of situation, the vast majority won't. A situation that starts to reverse itself in rough proportion to privilege.

Also those unrepresentative individuals are routinely highlighted and mythologised as proof that 'everyone' can succeed, thereby allowing the status quo to continue.

[Leftbehind]

At this point I think even Griffin's taking notes on how to sabotage your party as good as Galloway has.

[Leftbehind]

The way forward - you anti-reform dinosaurs are against progress(!).

So academies offer not just pissing away money when we're withdrawing needed money elsewhere, the removal of local accountability, anti-workers rights but now discrimination too. Yet they're fait accompli to the political class.

[Leftbehind]

Our political class know little more than to imitate yours.

Miliband's ratings are close to Clegg's in toxicity in the latest YG.

[Leftbehind]

It isn't easy to measure media bias objectively,  but here's a study questioning the stuff you get from the Right about how biased against them the BBC is:
https://theconversation.com/hard-evidence-how-biased-is-the-bbc-17028

Really, that's basically all known to everyone who's ever watched the channel for a sustained period of time, and isn't a blinkered right-winger.

The 'Ed is crap' story of the last few weeks is gaining further traction with Alastair Darling being the newest name on the list of critics.

Several of these have had comments taken out of context.  (I don't know about Darling.)  Of the others, some fall in the "who cares?" category; I mean, why should anyone take any notice of Lord Glasman?

I don't, as it happens, think Ed Miliband is the best Leader of the Opposition ever.  But I see no evidence that any other realistic candidate would be any better, and the efforts of the left (in general) ought to be directed at defeating this thoroughly nasty and rather incompetent government rather than sniping at him.

Hear hear. Half this stuff is exaggerated by the Tory press anyway in the hope that it will turn into something bigger. We don't need a leadership contest at this time.

I'd have said the same two years ago, and probably did, but we're a fair bit on now and all sorts of warning signals have gone off since. Whether it's Labour's increasing acceptance of austerity and Ball's promise to match Tory spending; further climbing down from policies of universalism; Byrne's race with IDS to see who can be the biggest wankstain and Labour's collaboration with that; the bizzare Blairite coup regarding the union link and last but not least Miliband's deafening silence as opposition and refusal to be seen to commit to anything. I'm not about to rally around another bunch of triangulators who can't even bring it in themselves to distinctly differ from a radically Right government - even if there are no obvious appealing frontrunners to replace Ed Miliband, he needs to feel the heat.

[Leftbehind]

Caught a ridiculous interview earlier with Mark Hendrick where Ben Brown appeared to be playing the Tory, hectoring and demanding Labour's position. I can't remember the last time I seen the BBC interview a Tory in that manner.

[Leftbehind]

I would have seen it.

[Leftbehind]

Jim Fitzpatrick has reportedly resigned his shadow cabinet position from Labour's lack of opposing intervention more vigorously.

[Leftbehind]

Yeah, my mistake. Chances of the government losing?