Anyone else tired of the constant Democratic bickering over the 2016 primary? (user search)
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  Anyone else tired of the constant Democratic bickering over the 2016 primary? (search mode)
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Author Topic: Anyone else tired of the constant Democratic bickering over the 2016 primary?  (Read 2926 times)
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jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,946


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

« on: October 20, 2017, 08:36:41 PM »

You mean should progressives continue to have no power and blindly vote for their political enemies?
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jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,946


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2017, 10:54:49 PM »

The third way establishment has made it clear that they will fight progressives tooth and nail and continue to stand for corrupt neoliberal hawkish principles. There is a large ideological difference between the establishment and progressives. The establishment has been cleansing progressives from the DNC, rigged the California Democratic chair race, and goes after Bernie like no tomorrow.

This isn't a fight that progressives wanted to fight, they'd rather the supposedly left of center party in this country be acceptably left (obviously it would never be perfect), but that's definitely not happening on its own. The choice is whether to fight the establishment tooth and nail for control of the Democratic party, or start an actually progressive 3rd party.
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jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,946


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2017, 11:10:22 PM »

Looking at it today, it appears to be clear that there is no, and there has been no semblance of, real "unification" in sight for the Democratic Party. Clinton and Sanders offered two totally conflicting political and economic perspectives - and it manifested in an astounding, generational line in the sand. Those who may have been first politicized from this most recent election have had a brush with a divisive, antiquated and corrupt system and since walked away with permanent scarring, for better or worse. With the established wing of the party repeatedly proving itself unwilling to come to terms with the rise of the further left, there will be no meaningful unity.

The damage of the primary has been done and there is no going back, so I certainly believe it makes sense to debate the direction of the Democratic Party with this defining primary in the background.

No they didn't, they were very similar, and I'm quoting Bernie Sanders here. As he said, anyone who didn't vote for Hillary in November never really believed in his Revolution.
Bullsh**t, he never said that, and there was a vast ideological difference. This wasn't like 2008, where it turned out that Obama was a neoliberal fraud.
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jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,946


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2017, 02:47:50 AM »

I would like some of the more "progressive" posters on this forum to realize that criticizing Bernie Sanders does not make one a brainless Hillary bot.

Also labeling anyone who disagrees with you on giving away everything for free as a right-wing Wall Street shill is not going to win you a nationwide election.

This is one of the major complaints I had with a lot of the Bernie supporters I knew, and a little bit with Bernie himself. I agreed with some (but certainly not all) of parts of his platform, and thought seriously about voting for him on Super Tuesday, but I decided at the end of the day that he wouldn't be an effective force for enacting well thought-out policy. I have some progressive tendencies but I also really value pragmatism. The thing that bothered me about die-hard Bernie supporters was they equated people who valued pragmatism, the rigorous critique of policy and appreciation of nuance with being ideologically opposed to them. Combine this antagonism with the incredible sense of self-righteous moral superiority that a lot of liberals have and it makes them really unpleasant to talk with sometimes (yes, I recognize that there are a lot of Clinton supporters who are also self-righteous and combative so spare me your "both sides do it!"). I would have much more faith in a Liz Warren-type Democrat as President than Bernie, but because I criticized Bernie for being really unrealistic, I got labelled by a lot of Bernie supporters I knew (including good friends) as a DINO, enemy of the working class, neoliberal shill, etc. And by the tenth time I got one of those comments it really got to me I started to get combative.
This post describes how I felt about the 2016 primaries so well. Great post! I truly considered Sanders for a brief period after the Iowa caucus was a virtual tie but at the end I knew he couldn't get his policies enacted and his propensity for expecting "all or nothing" from other politicians just made a Sanders presidency unpalatable to me. I did not want to vote for Hillary Clinton. She was not my first, second, or third choice but it was either her, who I knew could work with a fractured Congress, or Sanders who would have been a massive liability after he disillusioned his voters he promised so many ideas and policies to.

I agree about Liz Warren. She and Sherrod Brown are candidates I feel would be extraordinary nominees and can appeal to the concerns of some Bernie voters while still be palatable to mainstream Democrats and pragmatists.

Bernie got more amendments passed in the 1995-2006 Republican controlled House than any other representative. Just because he's been attacked repeatedly for being some ideologue who isn't pragmatic to get anything actually done doesn't mean that there's any truth to that claim.
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