Do you have a higher opinion of Evangelical Christianity or Islam? (user search)
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  Do you have a higher opinion of Evangelical Christianity or Islam? (search mode)
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Question: ?
#1
Evangelical Christianity
 
#2
Islam
 
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Total Voters: 93

Author Topic: Do you have a higher opinion of Evangelical Christianity or Islam?  (Read 8040 times)
Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.
Nathan
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« on: September 17, 2022, 01:44:25 AM »

By “Evangelical” you mean fundamentalist, I’m guessing.
I would use the word "orthodox", a term which covers a lot more than the word "evangelical". I would use the term "heterodox" (as an example of the latter: John Shelby Spong), for those who reject certain traditional beliefs... anyway three more posts and I will be at 6666. Should I be scared?

That's not what's being asked about, though.
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Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.
Nathan
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2022, 11:25:09 PM »

If you're asking if I have a higher opinion of the largely white conservative/fundamentalist Protestants who are disproportionately American vs. Muslims in general, well I know which ones are far more powerful, numerous, and malignant in my country.

I'll grant that Salafism and Khomeneism are Bad. Though it should be noted that both of those are modern developments (in the latter case very much so, obviously) and simplistic, politicized interpretations of an utterly massive Abrahamic religion with well over a millennium of history, explicitly calling for a "return" to the imagined early golden period of the religion. The fundamentals, if you will.

Both of those are far less awful than historical Islam, ISIS may seem horrible but they’re far more in line with the historical practice of Islam than the former two. I think Evangelical Christianity represent corrupted Christian values, but they’re still better than generic Islam.

"Historical Islam" is an exceptionally general and evasive term in this context.
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Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.
Nathan
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« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2022, 12:40:07 AM »

And maybe evangelicalism and Islam aren’t that different anyway

I have observed many times that Sunni Islam, at least the way it exists in the West, resembles from an organizational standpoint nothing more than non-denominational Protestantism.

Are there also a fair number of Sunni imams, scholars, and other authority figures of dubious credibility but nevertheless, a significant following? Tongue

While on the subject of this comparison, the American mainstream media seemed to have discovered so-called cultural Christianity—specifically in the form of white evangelical Protestants, the most interesting religious community to media and political pollsters—during the 2016 Republican presidential primaries. Members of this forum have long had spirited conversations with BRTD re: “cultural” religion in general, and cultural Catholicism in particular—perhaps BRTD’s least favorite subject. Regardless, this is not a novel subject for us.

My impression is that it’s even harder to define Islam (and by implication, Muslims) narrowly as a religion in the individualistic/personal way that most Americans, maybe Protestants and secular Americans in particular, conceptualize religion; but I’m not certain of this.

That's my impression as well, and I've noticed that it has a tendency to stymy serious conversations about prejudice against Muslims, but also about, conversely, the problems that Islam and Islamic societies do tend to have. What's being discussed is never "just" the on-paper tenets of Islam-the-religion, something I think all sides of this or that argument about it would do well to recognize more clearly before the argument begins.
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Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.
Nathan
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Posts: 34,526


« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2022, 11:08:50 PM »

And maybe evangelicalism and Islam aren’t that different anyway

I have observed many times that Sunni Islam, at least the way it exists in the West, resembles from an organizational standpoint nothing more than non-denominational Protestantism.

Are there also a fair number of Sunni imams, scholars, and other authority figures of dubious credibility but nevertheless, a significant following? Tongue

While on the subject of this comparison, the American mainstream media seemed to have discovered so-called cultural Christianity—specifically in the form of white evangelical Protestants, the most interesting religious community to media and political pollsters—during the 2016 Republican presidential primaries. Members of this forum have long had spirited conversations with BRTD re: “cultural” religion in general, and cultural Catholicism in particular—perhaps BRTD’s least favorite subject. Regardless, this is not a novel subject for us.

My impression is that it’s even harder to define Islam (and by implication, Muslims) narrowly as a religion in the individualistic/personal way that most Americans, maybe Protestants and secular Americans in particular, conceptualize religion; but I’m not certain of this.

That's my impression as well, and I've noticed that it has a tendency to stymy serious conversations about prejudice against Muslims, but also about, conversely, the problems that Islam and Islamic societies do tend to have. What's being discussed is never "just" the on-paper tenets of Islam-the-religion, something I think all sides of this or that argument about it would do well to recognize more clearly before the argument begins.

Islamic theology is vastly worse than Muslim societies, also the vast majority of Muslims are also far better people than Muhammed was.

The post of mine that you're responding to doesn't say otherwise, nor does it say...well, the opposite of otherwise.
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Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.
Nathan
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Posts: 34,526


« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2022, 08:25:12 PM »


It sure has.

Posters are advised to avoid describing entire religious or philosophical traditions in intensely moralistic and censorious terms.
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Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.
Nathan
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« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2022, 04:12:38 PM »

From the two options, Islam has no concept of 'original sin', ergo it automatically holds a higher place in my estimation than (western) Christianity. 

I think original sin tends to get overstated as a reason for the characteristic problems with Christianity, especially since Eastern Christianity, which as you allude to doesn't stress the concept as much, has a lot of those problems as well (in some cases even more severely such as with the tendency to play handmaiden to authoritarian governments).
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Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.
Nathan
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Atlas Superstar
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Posts: 34,526


« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2023, 03:07:10 PM »

I think the actual arguments that have been mounted in this thread are mostly acceptable so far, but any more low-effort tit for tat and I'm locking it.
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