COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

[Horus]

I am going to visit relatives in Alabama (my mother is from Alabama) and many of them are anti-vaxxers.

Which precautions should I take?

If you're fully vaccinated, you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

I mean, the vaccine is not 100% effective and is less effective against certain variations (i.e. Delta).

Wow, you're really f**king stupid.

It's like some people want the pandemic to continue forever.

Taking precautions is not the same thing as wanting the pandemic to continue forever.

People can and should take precautions but there should be no governmental mandates at this time and certainly never ever any business or school shut downs again. Never!

We are largely vaccinated population with a minority of clowns refusing it. We shall not let them control us!

Bro...

He's right. If you're too stupid to get vaccinated by now, you deserve what you get.

[Horus]

He's made it clear he doesn't care what happens to anyone, doesn't care about facts, he just wants to bury his head in the sand and pretend the pandemic is over, and wants everyone else to do the same. He even screeched about wanting testing ended and seems triggered by anyone even taking the slightest precautions.

If you're vaccinated, the pandemic is over.

[Horus]

He's made it clear he doesn't care what happens to anyone, doesn't care about facts, he just wants to bury his head in the sand and pretend the pandemic is over, and wants everyone else to do the same. He even screeched about wanting testing ended and seems triggered by anyone even taking the slightest precautions.

If you're vaccinated, the pandemic is over.

So you're both claiming that it's impossible for somebody who is vaccinated to get COVID (despite the findings), that it's impossible for worse variants to arise thanks to the people who refuse to vaccinate, and denying the long term debilitating health effects that are affecting people who are too young to vaccinate?

Good to know you're about as credible as Trumpists.

1. Hospitalizations among the vaccinated are virtually zero which is what matters.

2. A deadly flu variant could also suddenly pop up tomorrow, we aren't shutting society down for that possibility.

3. As has been explained over 5 times now, COVID is not a threat to children.

Take your anti vaxxer nonsense off this thread. Garbage like that should result in a permaban.

[Horus]

He's made it clear he doesn't care what happens to anyone, doesn't care about facts, he just wants to bury his head in the sand and pretend the pandemic is over, and wants everyone else to do the same. He even screeched about wanting testing ended and seems triggered by anyone even taking the slightest precautions.

If you're vaccinated, the pandemic is over.

People are still getting sick and dying both here and across the globe despite my vaccination status.

I never claimed the pandemic was over for those people.

[Horus]

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/l-a-county-again-requirinhttps://ktla.com/news/local-news/l-a-county-again-requiring-masks-indoors-starting-saturday/g-masks-indoors-starting-saturday/

LA county to bring back mask mandates.

Joke county.

[Horus]

https://abc7.com/la-county-sheriff-alex-villanueva-mask-order-los-angeles-department-of-public-health-mandate/10892664/

The sheriff won't enforce the mask order

He should be removed from office. Whether you like a mask mandate or not, law enforcement has a duty to enforce the law.

This is the equivalent of not going after jaywalkers. Fully vaccinated individuals should not have to change their lifestyle to protect the idiots who chose not to get one.

[Horus]

Chicago schools are said to be mandating masks for everyone whether vaccinated or not.

How do they expect to enforce this?

If you're not wearing a mask you get sent home?

But they're getting rid of remote "learning."

I'm assuming they'll just force them to wear masks in much the same way they'd be forced to remain in their seats or go to class on time. Sending them home isn't unprecedented because schools are able to send students or staff home if they have head lice or contagious conditions like chickenpox, but in those cases the students clearly are unwell and contagious and not capable of safely learning. In this case, there's a presumption of "guilt" (or rather, infection) regardless of evidence. 

The generation after Gen Z will be lifelong Republicans because of this.

[Horus]

I just want to vent that pretty much all of the liberal "pro-science" media is devoting wall to wall coverage to the potential for the vaccines being ineffective longterm. They're desperate for an endless pandemic and I hate them for it. I'm struggling to get some important people in my life to get the vaccine and they're convinced that the vaccine doesn't prevent infections, and it's because of bloodthirsty 24-hour news networks and fear-mongering rags like the NYT.

I feel your pain. One of my closest friends is wavering on getting his second dose of Pfizer and the cable news he watches every evening (usually CNN or our local NBC) isn't helping.

[Horus]

Chicago schools are said to be mandating masks for everyone whether vaccinated or not.

How do they expect to enforce this?

If you're not wearing a mask you get sent home?

But they're getting rid of remote "learning."

I'm assuming they'll just force them to wear masks in much the same way they'd be forced to remain in their seats or go to class on time. Sending them home isn't unprecedented because schools are able to send students or staff home if they have head lice or contagious conditions like chickenpox, but in those cases the students clearly are unwell and contagious and not capable of safely learning. In this case, there's a presumption of "guilt" (or rather, infection) regardless of evidence.  

The generation after Gen Z will be lifelong Republicans because of this.

You clearly have not talked with a child in years.

Democrats are starting to become the establishment, no fun allowed, moralizing party just like the GOP was in my youth. Sure they're the better option for now because we need universal healthcare and the GOP is majority Trump cult but I can definitely see their overzealousness on COVID restrictions biting them in the ass soon.

[Horus]

...Seems like people are just dooming for the sake of it or falling for the media's fearmongering.

We are 610,000 people dead in the US, and yet some people are still downplaying Covid as just "fearmongering."
Un-fing believable.

He said the media's coverage of COVID is fear mongering, not COVID itself. The media is vastly overstating the risks to the vaccinated. I haven't worn a mask anywhere in over a month and unless the business forces me to I have no plans to start again. I have no idea why other fully vaccinated Americans are still so fearful.

[Horus]

If we went purely by the science we would have indoor mask mandates in perpetuity.

This is just as deranged of a position as being anti vax. Wow. Can we please stop pretending there aren't people out there who want masks forever? MattRose might be trolling but it's clear that masks made a certain, extremely socially awkward segment of the population feel better in public and now they're scared to give them up. Unreal.

[Horus]

If we went purely by the science we would have indoor mask mandates in perpetuity.

This is just as deranged of a position as being anti vax. Wow. Can we please stop pretending there aren't people out there who want masks forever? MattRose might be trolling but it's clear that masks made a certain, extremely socially awkward segment of the population feel better in public and now they're scared to give them up. Unreal.

Maybe but this seems to be conjecture.

Maybe, but as someone who is reasonably socially awkward I can see the appeal. I'm not sure why else people would be so dead set on keeping the mandates when masks are virtually pointless for vaccinated individuals... They aren't comfortable and many begin to itch after awhile.

[Horus]

They're still zero cost! Why oppose a zero cost mitigation measure that works? We mandate people put clothes on outdoors, and clothes cost money. We mandate people put on seat belts in cars, and those cost money and are uncomfortable. It's still irrational to oppose mask mandates and it is incredibly disappointing that many Democrats have fully embraced the Trumpist position on this issue. Seems even Trump haters have fallen victim to Trumpist brainwashing.

You do realize when we're talking about the cost effectiveness of masks that we aren't just talking about the literal price of them, right? They aren't comfortable to wear for extended periods of time, especially in summer heat with how muggy the air gets, and not being able to fully read people's facial expressions makes regular day to day interactions with people stiff and awkward.

After over a year of having no other option, of course people are going to be excited about having the possibility of taking them off. This is why many of us, and not just "Trumpists," are telling you why extending mask mandates would be an awful idea- the idea of not wearing a mask is a vaccine incentive to many people. That's why so many people waited for mask mandates to be lifted to get their vaccines in the first place. Most places have no real way of enforcing mask mandates so if you enacted one nowadays, the only people who would be wearing them are people like you who are vaccinated but paranoid out of their minds from doomscrolling on social media and not the unvaccinated people who would actually benefit from wearing one.

This is the reality even now. I suspect that the vast majority of those still wearing masks at this point are people who are fully vaccinated, but who are paranoid and don't feel comfortable with not wearing them. Most of those who are unvaccinated, and have no intentions of getting the vaccine, are not wearing masks anymore. Thus, a renewed mask mandate would be impractical.

You say a mask mandate would be impractical to enforce, which is a reasonable argument, but then claim that a vaccine mandate is the way? Suppose today one is stopped at the door of a store by an employee with a surgical mask in hand and told that one must wear a mask to enter. What happens? Most will grumble, put on the mask, and go about their business, some will get angry, yell loudly, and leave, and a few would get their guns and shoot the employee. Now imagine the same situation with the employee asking for proof of vaccination? Just about everyone will be angry and have to leave since the vaccine card was not designed for portability and few carry it with them everywhere, many will yell loudly, and more than a nominal number will get their guns and fire. If new mask mandates are impractical then vaccine mandates would be just about impossible.

You have a strong desire to surrender to the anti vaxxers and not push back at all. And carrying an oversized card is far, far less intrusive than wearing a mask everywhere.

[Horus]

If you still think the vaccinated need to mask up again after seeing this chart, I feel very sorry for you. Hopefully Fauci and crew won't cave to mask fetish hysteria.

[Horus]

Shout out to my fellow fully vaccinateds who have still been wearing a mask and socially distancing while in public.

When do you plan to stop wearing a mask and socially distancing?

As I live in a county with a high vaccination rate, I will not be following any of these recommendations and will only, unenthusiastically, don a mask if the building I am entering requires it. Even that is getting tepid, if cases continue to decline I may throw the masks out completely.

[Horus]

What's going to start happening is that a significant part of the population is going to start staying home again because they're legitimately freaked out.

If those people wanna miss out on life because of blatant misinformation and government sanctioned hypochondria, they have every right to. I'm fine with shorter lines and less traffic.

[Horus]

This is basically the teacher punishing the entire class for the behavior of a few bad apples.

[Horus]

This is basically the teacher punishing the entire class for the behavior of a few bad apples.

The CDC is also undermining its credibility through this move. Now, we're going to see the anti-vaxxers say that they are "vindicated" by this, and the alarmists will be "vindicated" also. Both groups will claim that the vaccine is ineffective. I will be very angry if my workplace decides to reimpose its mask requirement, and if mask mandates return to Colorado. This is the kind of thing I could see having a detrimental effect politically in next year's midterms.

What these past few weeks have taught me is that the anti vax movement is still alive and well on the left. They just hide their vaccine skepticism by being super pro mask.

[Horus]

Glad to see we will have a useful conversation about the Delta Variant and how it should and should not change our approach instead of random conspiracies, personal attacks, and rants.

Other than the Nazi comparison from a known contrarian troll, this convo has been reasonably tame so not sure what you're talking about?

[Horus]

Glad to see we will have a useful conversation about the Delta Variant and how it should and should not change our approach instead of random conspiracies, personal attacks, and rants.

a lot of people think this decision is political and not based on science.  

Not anybody intelligent or credible.

You've bent over backwards trying to explain why rural whites are justified in not getting vaccinated because "big pharma did them wrong in the past" so not sure why you're preaching "follow the science" now...

[Horus]

This is basically the teacher punishing the entire class for the behavior of a few bad apples.

The CDC is also undermining its credibility through this move. Now, we're going to see the anti-vaxxers say that they are "vindicated" by this, and the alarmists will be "vindicated" also. Both groups will claim that the vaccine is ineffective. I will be very angry if my workplace decides to reimpose its mask requirement, and if mask mandates return to Colorado. This is the kind of thing I could see having a detrimental effect politically in next year's midterms.

What these past few weeks have taught me is that the anti vax movement is still alive and well on the left. They just hide their vaccine skepticism by being super pro mask.

I'm so deeply opposed to the vaccine, I sat at my desk refreshing multiple tracker sites in April to find the earliest appointment possible in three states and would seriously consider getting a third shot (or 4th, 5th, etc) without official sanction if the spread gets bad enough. If that's being "anti-vax" maybe everyone should be anti-vax.

The "skepticism" is due to the fact that public health authorities and people like you have adopted the message that the vaccine is an impenetrable virus-repelling force field allowing one to be safe against COVID-19 regardless of the exposure. This message is false and now untenable given Delta. "Oh, but you're mostly protected against severe illness and death" you say. Well, I prefer to avoid being bedridden for a week with a high fever, losing my sense of smell and taste, and suffering long-term effects afterwards with a "mild" infection, and hospitalization is such a disastrous result that honestly 95% protection isn't even that good of a number.

No matter how much you want it to be, the pandemic is not over, COVID-19 is still a threat to the public, it's still spreading out of control, and mitigation measures are necessary. I would love a real vaccine mandate where unvaccinated are effectively barred from public places, but since that's impractical and masks are zero cost and worked before, I advocate for mask mandates. Clearly the public health authorities are coming around to my point of view.

[Horus]

It's fascinating (if incredibly depressing) quite how many liberals have memed themselves into taking what amount to soft anti-vaxxer positions. This thread heaves with that kind of nonsense.

If by "meme" you mean "I want to protect myself and want to know the most accurate current developments so I can adjust my behavior accordingly", then you'd be right. Unlike Trumpists, I'm not interested in sacrificing my own health so the president has a better approval rating.

You keep ignoring the graph I posted.

[Horus]

Johnson and Johnson was paused for an absurd reason.

I am not the same as the people who are attacking fauci, refusing to wear masks, refusing to be vaccinated, saying to drink bleach to cure covid.

No serious person wants a permanent lockdown.
No serious person wants permanent masks.
No serious person believed it was possible to get to COVID Zero.
No serious person on the left was "demonizing masks."

These are lies.  You are a liar.

There are serious people in this thread who want permanent masks. Compucomp literally said he wants masks "in perpetuity." Far as I can tell he's a serious poster (though the praise he's given the CCP in other threads does make me question his agenda)

[Horus]

If numbers spike (still an if - look at what happened to Delta surges in London and India), it is indeed a massive failure by the Biden administration.

If numbers spike, it's a massive failure by unvaccinated Americans that will by and large only harm other unvaccinated Americans. Nothing to do with the Biden administration.

[Horus]

Even if the vaccinated can spread the virus as easily as the unvaccinated, which I doubt, only the unvaccinated are going to get seriously ill. We should not base our policies around protecting them as they have had ample opportunity to protect themselves free of charge and refused to do so every time.