Thomas Jefferson was quite the proverbial asshole

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I never was a huge fan of the man for a variety of reasons (though I also had reasons to like him). This doesn't exactly subtract from the already insulting term I referred to him as, a Godless Communist.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I never was a huge fan of the man for a variety of reasons (though I also had reasons to like him). This doesn't exactly subtract from the already insulting term I referred to him as, a Godless Communist.

I hope you meant that purely as an insult and not as a judgment of Jefferson's actual beliefs.

Insult, though he was quite left-wing compared to many at the time, and that's never good.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I never was a huge fan of the man for a variety of reasons (though I also had reasons to like him). This doesn't exactly subtract from the already insulting term I referred to him as, a Godless Communist.

I hope you meant that purely as an insult and not as a judgment of Jefferson's actual beliefs.

Insult, though he was quite left-wing compared to many at the time, and that's never good.

Go Elbridge Gerry yourself.

That's the new substitution for f[Inks]? Or was Elbridge Gerry the moderator of real life 1800's?

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I never was a huge fan of the man for a variety of reasons (though I also had reasons to like him). This doesn't exactly subtract from the already insulting term I referred to him as, a Godless Communist.

I hope you meant that purely as an insult and not as a judgment of Jefferson's actual beliefs.

Insult, though he was quite left-wing compared to many at the time, and that's never good.

Go Elbridge Gerry yourself.

That's the new substitution for f[Inks]? Or was Elbridge Gerry the moderator of real life 1800's?

Rather a death wish, considering his "record" as VP

But seriously, I have problems with thinking of Jefferson as particulary "left-wing" compared to his peers. Of course, there were "freedom of press", "freedom of religion" and "I believe in the people" stuff but that applied more or less to most of the Founding Fathers. On the other hand, Jefferson was an agrarian freak, affraid of industry and deeply attached to semi-feudal Southern way of life.

I guess I'm a Federalist.

In the sense of his rhetorical love for tearing down aristocracy and systems, he was "liberal". While "conservatives" feared Shay's Rebellion, Jefferson and his love for revolution--a left-wing thing in the non-ideological sense--had little qualms over it. As well, unlike the majority at the constitutional convention, he was concerned about the amount of power that the constitution gave. He led the way in the dis-establishment of the Church of England (or whatever its American version was) in Virginia, practically called for secession in the wake of Adams' reactionary Alien and Sedition Acts, preferred an agrarian economy in contrast to his image of "evil" Northern industrialists and financiers, and detested banks. All I can say is thank God he didn't follow through on his rhetoric once he was actually President. I'm not saying he was some superhero in the way of racial views, but in terms of his contemporaries, he was quite left-wing.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

ALso, I don't think many of us would make the case that TJ was a very good guy or saintlike.  We just think that he's preferable to the Federalists, who were actually quite close to the literal definition of "Horrible People".  Seriously, nothing gets me laughing harder than seeing so-called "liberals" say they would support the Federalists if they lived in the old days.

At least I'm consistent!

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

At least I'm consistent!

consistently confused.  How is an agrarian proto-libertarian a communist?  

The man would be disgusted with modern forms of capitalism and would want to set us back over 200 years in terms of our economic evolution. His calls for wealth redistribution and such were not  exactly "libertarian". As well, your response does not actually address my claims of consistency. I claimed consistency as a reply to what Mechaman claimed in which he was amused at so-called "liberals" supporting the Federalists. I am a conservative and no huge fan of the Democratic-Republicans myself. Thus I was "consistent" when compared with the liberals. Please, before calling me confused or anything of the sort, read what I say.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I haven't watched Sean Hannity in years. As for some background on my "communism" comment, again, the thread is your friend.

I never was a huge fan of the man for a variety of reasons (though I also had reasons to like him). This doesn't exactly subtract from the already insulting term I referred to him as, a Godless Communist.

I hope you meant that purely as an insult and not as a judgment of Jefferson's actual beliefs.

Insult, though he was quite left-wing compared to many at the time, and that's never good.

My argument "proving" him left-wing is later in the thread as well.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Having read up on Jefferson, I can say that the whole thing where he didn't give away his slaves wasn't his fault. All his property was confiscated as part of a state lottery in order to help pay his debts. He himself was disappointed, and Monticello itself wouldn't re-enter family hands for another 50 years.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Both parties were wrong. Gop wanted like clay wanted to send blacks to liberia. But because lincoln died for blacks and preserved the union, gop gets credit.

Typically, when someone wants to make a point, they put their words in proper order, add preferred punctuation, and capitalize acronyms.