Florida HB 1557 ("Don't Say Gay") gutted in settlement - now applies only to instruction on LGBTQ+

[Del Tachi]

Good.

DeSantis and the anti-woke brigade can pound salt.

DeSantis agreed to it lmao:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ron-desantis-celebrates-dont-say-gay-settlement-that-lets-lgbtq-issues-be-discussed-in-classrooms

They tried to go as extreme as possible, and the courts only let them go half-way. It's still overall a victory for them and much more in the direction of what they wanted overall, just not as much as they would have wanted in a perfect world. It makes perfect sense why DeSantis would still be overall happy about the end result... and he can still pound salt.

No.  This settlement reflects how the law was written and meant to be enforced.  Liberals overreacted (as they always do) and this outcome simply codifies what the law was really always about: no classroom instruction on sexual orientation or gender identity.

[Del Tachi]

No.  This ruling reflects how the law was written and meant to be enforced.  Liberals overreacted (as they always do) and this outcome simply codifies what the law was really always about: no classroom instruction on sexual orientation or gender identity.

It’s genuinely pathetic how much water you carry for a party that hates you.

It's pretty pathetic how you always post personal attacks and can't debate actual issues with a semblance of nuance.

[Del Tachi]

No.  This ruling reflects how the law was written and meant to be enforced.  Liberals overreacted (as they always do) and this outcome simply codifies what the law was really always about: no classroom instruction on sexual orientation or gender identity.

It’s genuinely pathetic how much water you carry for a party that hates you.

It's pretty pathetic how you always post personal attacks and can't debate actual issues with a semblance of nuance.

It's not a personal attack to state what is factual. Go run for Republican Central Committee or whatever you have in Mississippi as openly gay and see what happens.

How do you know I'm not already imbedded in MS-GOP politics?

It is not factual that I "carry water" for a party that "hates" me.  Both of those assertions are obviously a matter of opinion.

[Del Tachi]

No.  This ruling reflects how the law was written and meant to be enforced.  Liberals overreacted (as they always do) and this outcome simply codifies what the law was really always about: no classroom instruction on sexual orientation or gender identity.

It’s genuinely pathetic how much water you carry for a party that hates you.

It's pretty pathetic how you always post personal attacks and can't debate actual issues with a semblance of nuance.

Criticism of your beliefs and hypocrisy is not a personal attack.

Funny how your post includes neither, eh?

[Del Tachi]

Funny how your post includes neither, eh?

It includes both. What do you think “carry water for a party that hates you” means?

That is not a criticism of anyone's beliefs.  If you think my "take" on this issue is wrong, you are welcomed to offer up arguments to change my mind (or at least make me sound stupid.)  All you have done is show how ungracious you are to the idea that queer folks are diverse in their politics and lived experiences, probably because it is simpler for you to treat LGBTQ+ people as political props in service to an agenda.

[Del Tachi]

Alright, I'll rephrase my post as a question: how can you, as a gay man, support the political party that is hostile to LGBT rights? Even if you agree with the Republican Party on every other issue, how can you not view your civil rights as the most important thing? I genuinely do not understand it.

The "movement" for "LGBTQ+ rights" has never spoken for the majority of gay people, who mostly just want to exist unbothered and unnoticed and are ok with conservative institutions (i.e., churches, families, etc.) exerting influence in the ways they traditionally have.  The LGBTQ movement has always been a platform for progressive politics and has become even more cross-contaminated with the "woke" ideology of intersectionality and victimhood in recent years.  Your question is assuming that all gay people should identify as gay first, before any other identity or belief system.  But the very many gay people I know who exist outside the amplified, progressive political bubble have a lot more interesting things going on in their lives.  The activist class has mostly left no room for these types, because it doesn't serve their version of zero-sum identity politics.

"Don't say gay" is not about preventing teachers or students from talking about what goes on in their own households or from referencing gay characters in history/literature in an age-appropriate way, but about making sure classroom instruction isn't an opportunity to push a particular belief about gender or sexuality.  That's defensible because no child should be subject to potentially confusing ideas about gender or sex from empowered adults acting beyond the responsibility given by his parents. 

[Del Tachi]

The mental gymnastics of a “gay” republicans are as consulates as they are gross

You would only put "gay" in quotation marks if either (1) you think I'm lying about my sexuality to gain some type of credibility for my beliefs, or (2) my political beliefs make my lived experience as an openly gay man less valid (i.e., I'm a gay  Uncle Tom.)

So which is it?

[Del Tachi]

Alright, I'll rephrase my post as a question: how can you, as a gay man, support the political party that is hostile to LGBT rights? Even if you agree with the Republican Party on every other issue, how can you not view your civil rights as the most important thing? I genuinely do not understand it.

The "movement" for "LGBTQ+ rights" has never spoken for the majority of gay people, who mostly just want to exist unbothered and unnoticed and are ok with conservative institutions (i.e., churches, families, etc.) exerting influence in the ways they traditionally have.  The LGBTQ movement has always been a platform for progressive politics and has become even more cross-contaminated with the "woke" ideology of intersectionality and victimhood in recent years.  Your question is assuming that all gay people should identify as gay first, before any other identity or belief system.  But the very many gay people I know who exist outside the amplified, progressive political bubble have a lot more interesting things going on in their lives.  The activist class has mostly left no room for these types, because it doesn't serve their version of zero-sum identity politics.

"Don't say gay" is not about preventing teachers or students from talking about what goes on in their own households or from referencing gay characters in history/literature in an age-appropriate way, but about making sure classroom instruction isn't an opportunity to push a particular belief about gender or sexuality.  That's defensible because no child should be subject to potentially confusing ideas about gender or sex from empowered adults acting beyond the responsibility given by his parents. 

Putting the rest of this to the side for a second, the part in bold is blatantly untrue.

Saying that gay people are okay with conservative institutions 'exerting influence' is not a serious statement, given than those institutions in the exercise of influence have and continue to push back against gay rights.

I understand you are trying your best to justify your own niche position within what may be a small bubble (and trust me, I used to be in a similar bubble), but don't propagate general assertions about the majority of gay people that aren't true.

Most gay people do not want to burn down the church or erase the nuclear family.  Even if growing up as gay in the culture is hard (and really what makes us queer, to boot), it's still preferable to a world where those institutions cease to be societal cornerstones (which is what progressive ideology, and thus "LGBTQ+", is all about.)  As someone who chose to elevate my identity as a Christian and as a conservative above being gay, it is not surprising that I would know/interact mostly with gay people who come from the same mindset.

Of course, I have plenty of interaction with the activist set because that's what the political media is most interested in showcasing (and many younger gay people do identify with and parrot it, if only because their first experience of queerness will likely be informed by media) but those people mostly seem to be sad, angry, or quite unfulfilled.  That is, they suffer from the same disease afflicting educated liberals globally.  But isn't being gay supposed to be fun?   

[Del Tachi]

Alright, I'll rephrase my post as a question: how can you, as a gay man, support the political party that is hostile to LGBT rights? Even if you agree with the Republican Party on every other issue, how can you not view your civil rights as the most important thing? I genuinely do not understand it.

The "movement" for "LGBTQ+ rights" has never spoken for the majority of gay people, who mostly just want to exist unbothered and unnoticed and are ok with conservative institutions (i.e., churches, families, etc.) exerting influence in the ways they traditionally have.  The LGBTQ movement has always been a platform for progressive politics and has become even more cross-contaminated with the "woke" ideology of intersectionality and victimhood in recent years.  Your question is assuming that all gay people should identify as gay first, before any other identity or belief system.  But the very many gay people I know who exist outside the amplified, progressive political bubble have a lot more interesting things going on in their lives.  The activist class has mostly left no room for these types, because it doesn't serve their version of zero-sum identity politics.

"Don't say gay" is not about preventing teachers or students from talking about what goes on in their own households or from referencing gay characters in history/literature in an age-appropriate way, but about making sure classroom instruction isn't an opportunity to push a particular belief about gender or sexuality.  That's defensible because no child should be subject to potentially confusing ideas about gender or sex from empowered adults acting beyond the responsibility given by his parents. 

Putting the rest of this to the side for a second, the part in bold is blatantly untrue.

Saying that gay people are okay with conservative institutions 'exerting influence' is not a serious statement, given than those institutions in the exercise of influence have and continue to push back against gay rights.

I understand you are trying your best to justify your own niche position within what may be a small bubble (and trust me, I used to be in a similar bubble), but don't propagate general assertions about the majority of gay people that aren't true.

Most gay people do not want to burn down the church or erase the nuclear family.  Even if growing up as gay in the culture is hard (and really what makes us queer, to boot), it's still preferable to a world where those institutions cease to be societal cornerstones (which is what progressive ideology, and thus "LGBTQ+", is all about.)  As someone who chose to elevate my identity as a Christian and as a conservative above being gay, it is not surprising that I would know/interact mostly with gay people who come from the same mindset.

Of course, I have plenty of interaction with the activist set because that's what the political media is most interested in showcasing (and many younger gay people do identify with and parrot it, if only because their first experience of queerness will likely be informed by media) but those people mostly seem to be sad, angry, or quite unfulfilled.  That is, they suffer from the same disease afflicting educated liberals globally.  But isn't being gay supposed to be fun?   

Okay, so you concede that your outlook and your social group is self-selecting. That it is in fact a minority view. That's fair enough.

You then claim that everyone else is 'sad, angry or unfulfilled.'

That's a very bold statement about what, by your own admission, is the vast majority of the gay community, who by extension are creating the vast majority of gay 'content'; from bars, to pride, to music and media.

Which is the anti-thesis to the minority (in a minority) identity you move in.

If conservative gays produced anything of comparable value; art, culture, a 'good time', gave the community a 'choice' then I could see your point.

But instead we have either anti-trans or anti-'LGBT' 'pick-mes' ,contrarians, grifters and burnouts. People who want to speak to and appeal to and apologise to straights, conservatives and authority. That's not 'a good time'.

Yes, my outlook and social network is self-selecting (how could it not be?) but I don't concede it's a minority view.  The majority of gay people are not activists.

Gay conservatives are not trying to compete in the same ideological space as gay 'content' creators.  They simply don't see their sexuality as the most important aspect of their identity, and the rest flows naturally.  Unfortunately, I have no idea what many gay men would be if they weren't gay.