European Integration

[mileslunn]

And whatever you support say why.  Mine is keep EU as is but perhaps as was done with Euro allow a two speed so those who want greater integration can have it while those who oppose greater integration aren't forced to and don't hold back those who want more.  Dissolving the EU is outright foolish even though seems popular with many on right in Anglosphere despite problems with Brexit.  And with UK always being a peripheral member and also one of larger I suspect any other member leaving would be even more problematic.

An EU superstate may be popular with some in academia and many working for EU, but totally unrealistic.  Cultural differences are too great for it to be feasible.  Sure it maybe geographically smaller than US, population smaller than India and China, but US has a common culture EU lacks.  India is united by a common religion and history while 90% of China is Han Chinese and I suspect many minorities like Uyghurs and Tibetans would be independent countries if China were a democracy.  Canada also bad example as while larger in size than EU and multicultural, it has two languages and two dominant cultures and even there its not like there aren't people in Canada who feel alienated and country is too large to work.  Not enough to make a breakup any risk, but still alienation you see by some in Quebec & Alberta would be far greater in an EU superstate. 

[mileslunn]

I mean if everything were perfect i'd want some world federation or something but that's not happening


I think EU federalism isn't extremely far-fetched but it'd have to be a very slow process, and obviously there would be a ton of pushback.

I guess one could argue that the EU is already a superstate but a deeply decentralized one, a confederation or something.

EU does have some country like characteristics such as ability to make laws, common currency.  But also lacks some key ones like no common army, no ability to raise taxes (revenue comes from national taxes countries remit just like members of UN all do only much higher amount), no exclusive citizenship (yes there are EU passports, but they still mention country and also there isn't anyway to apply for EU citizenship, instead one who becomes a citizen of any member state becomes an EU citizen), immigration laws for third countries separate.  In many ways it is a unique hybrid as has far more power than any other international organization and has some country like characteristics.  But at same time lacks some key ones and is pretty much more decentralized than any existing federation.  I guess perhaps has more power than UK does over British overseas territories, but if you look at other federations like Canada, US, Mexico, Australia etc, they all have national armies, all national governments have ability to directly raise taxes.

I think real problem is while most Europeans are proud to be European, they are loyal first and foremost to country from and European identity is secondary.  By contrast in US, most are American first and state second and usually what people identify as first is key.  Heck even EU, you have some regions where many want to break away from existing country, see Catalonia or when they were EU member had Scotland.  So its not like all 27 members are 100% united.  Some are, but some are not.

[mileslunn]

The first in the very long run, for now status quo out of these options.

While the EU is in need of some reforms, it's one of the best international organizations that were ever invented. It brought peace, stability, the rule of law and prosperity to the continent for decades.

I agree a federal Europe has lots of positives, but looking at how people are voting, I don't see it coming anytime soon.  For it to happen you would need to return to like late 90s where Christian Democrat, Liberal, and Social Democrats dominated and maybe Greens, but right wing populists were either non-existent or on fringe, not getting in double digits like they are today.