Opinion of Pope Alexander VI (user search)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
June 10, 2024, 01:55:19 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Discussion
  History (Moderator: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee)
  Opinion of Pope Alexander VI (search mode)
Pages: [1]
Poll
Question: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Alexander_VI
#1
FF
 
#2
HP
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 18

Author Topic: Opinion of Pope Alexander VI  (Read 1587 times)
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,380


« on: November 07, 2014, 02:54:20 PM »

Yes, the "Borgia Pope".

I agree with Roberto Gervaso's assessment that he was a very bad Pontiff but a very good ruler and politician (and during that time Papacy was a very political and temporal institution).

Although certainly ruthless and "amoral", he wasn't much diffrent from his predecessors and contemporaries. Most of bad things we've heard of him was manufactured under Julius II, who, due to his irresponsible policies, undone much of Borgia's achievements in entrenching the Papacy.
Logged
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,380


« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2014, 04:14:14 PM »

His son is incredibly overrated, though.

Indeed he is. Cesare was doing well as long as his father lived. Then he made the dumbest mistake by not opposing della Rovere's election (and he could have blocked him thanks to loyal Spanish Cardinals). Naturally, Julius II quickly got rid off him.
Logged
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,380


« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2014, 03:52:15 AM »

While I do believe Alexander VI was the one with the actual strategic vision, I wonder if Cesare made the choice to back della Rovere under the influence of his disease/poisoning and perhaps his stage of syphills as well. I mean, why on earth was he naive enough to believe in della Rovere?

Which leads me to think, was there any chance for Cesare to consolidate a lasting Duchy of Romagna had D'Amboise won the past election or had Piccolomini lived a few years instead of mere weeks?

I've never really thought of this, but his deteriorating health could be a factor in making such a poor decision.

One can wonder whether Cesare's career would be better off had he remained a Cardinal. After all, despite all dangers of the Roman politics, cardinalate was much safer and more stable position than Condotierro-Prince (for example, our friend della Rovere did not lose his position within the College thorough the entire Borgia's rule). Cesare might not have become the third Borgia Pope, as his father intended, but he'd remain a powerful figure.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

You've just remind me of very colorful description of the 1316 Conclave in Maurice Druon's novels: Cardinals Napoleon Orsini and Collona Bros putting curses at each other during the proceedings Wink
Logged
MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,380


« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2014, 08:22:45 AM »

Are Maurice Druon's novels the ones about the end of the Capets and the rise of the house of Valois? (I haven't read them yet)

Yes, the Accursed Kings. A great read.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.019 seconds with 12 queries.