Should masturbation be legal.

[Brambila]

As immoral as it is, I don't think the state should illegalize it, as this has to do with an interior addiction. I don't think the state has very much of a capability to enforce it anyway.

I think its quite sad that so many people are taking this lightly. Most likely, what I am saying is going to be taken as a joke too. I don't think people realize what masturbation-- which often can be manifested in an addictive form-- is incredibly disordered and hurtful to oneself.

It is depressing to think that something once considered shameful is encouraged.

[Brambila]

I think its quite sad that so many people are taking this lightly. Most likely, what I am saying is going to be taken as a joke too. I don't think people realize what masturbation-- which often can be manifested in an addictive form-- is incredibly disordered and hurtful to oneself.

Please elaborate.

I know masturbation to be a serious moral disorder. I focuses all of one's pleasure into one's self, instead of what it is for-- that is for the coming together between a man and a woman, and the manifestation of this love is found in the child. Sex is something more important than to be used for fun. At this point, everyone is having sex-- most Americans lose their virginity before they're 18th birthday-- and look at the results. Increased pedophilia cases; more single mothers; increasing amounts of sex-related crimes; increased amounts of STDs; less families; etc. At this rate, pedophilia will be considered acceptable, and the world will turn out not much different than Aldous Huxley's Brave New World.

[Brambila]

I think its important to lay out several things. First of all, the APA is not a very reliable source. They have constantly taken back many things they have believed to be true, and their studies are often completely erroneous. They lack consistency. This is all stemmed from the fact that in 1973 the APA was essentially hijacked by homosexual sympathizers. In fact, the psychologist, Dr. Robert Spitzer, has been criticized recently for bad studies, and he is the same person who convinced the APA board to remove Homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses, paving the way for the modern sexual revolution to take place.

Second, you talk about masturbation relieving stress. I’m not a psychologist, so I’m not necessarily qualified to assess this properly (Although most psychologists aren’t anyway), but from my view, is masturbation really a good way to relieve stress? Let's look at where some kinds of stress stem from-- anger, sexual pressure, and depression. First the obvious one-- do you believe that one can relieve stress from sexual pressure by committing a sexual act? I think it would have absolutely the opposite effect. If one is having sexual pressure, the worst thing for the person to do is to do anything sexual. Let's take anger and depression-- we all know that anger and depression lead to many horrible crimes. Do you think that mixing this with sex will solve the issue? This only transfers the anger and depression to a sexual form, and in doing so, harbors a sexual addiction. One can trace who has pedophiliac or sexual addictive tendencies to this—using masturbation to relieve stress from anger, rejection, depression, etc.

There are a number of things you stated, let me start with this:

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I never said that. I never even brought marriage into the equation. I said that the fact that the general populous is increasing in sexual promiscuity is the reason for why we are having so many problems now a days that come in this sexual form—pedophilia, sex-related violent crimes, divorce, greater amounts of STDs, etc. This rampant promiscuity around the country is encouraging children to be sexual active at very young ages. (I look around at middle schools—once a time of innocence—and I see 6th grade boys inappropriately touching their girlfriends.) It is this promiscuity that is leading to so many problems in our society.

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So says the APA and AMA—two organizations with a history of supporting this. Already, the APA is paving the path to a future condoning of pedophilia, in saying that child abuse is only temporarily hurtful to the child, and more so, implying that if children were OK with having a sexual relationship, the child wouldn’t be negatively effected. 

[Brambila]

Perhaps I've taken a wrong approach in explaining this, so please allow me to begin anew.

My understanding of sex is thus: to (1) to be open to life (reproduce) and (2) to unite together a man and a woman in love, with the offspring of the love being manifested in the child. Masturbation does neither of these two things, as it is completely self-centered. Therefore, it is immoral.

Of course, none of you probably believe in any consistent form of morality, so I suppose that this is useful to you, and ultimately my argument stems from whether or not there is natural moral law.

[Brambila]

Okay-- what is your consistent form of morality?

Concerning the entire "self-centered" issue, I don't think it is right for anyone to be entirely self-centered. There is certainly a level that seems self-centered-- trying to make yourself succeed in life, come closer to God, ultimately go to heaven, etc. But this shouldn't be through self-centeredness, but complete selflessness, and abandonement to the will of God.

I know-- I'm sparking an entire whirlwind of discussion. Mea culpa.

[Brambila]

You realize you can be be moral without being theistic, right? If you're not on that page, then theres no reason to continue this conversation.

I believe somebody could be moral and atheist/agnostic, yes.

[Brambila]

You realize you can be be moral without being theistic, right? If you're not on that page, then theres no reason to continue this conversation.

I believe somebody could be moral and atheist/agnostic, yes.

Then why do you condemn atheists/agnostics?

When have I?

[Brambila]

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What is it based on to make it true, consistent, and stable? In other words, how do you know that your moral view is correct?

[Brambila]

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Exactly. This is what I mean by no consitent form of morality. If your morality is subjective, then you're saying somebody else's morality is at minimum possibly just and correct as yours. What I'm arguing is that morality is not an invention of humans-- that is what human law is. Morality is a natural law. Natural Law is for me, is also for you, is also for those a thousand years ago, is also for those a thousand years from now.  This is a consisent form of morality. This morality we determine by nature-- it transcends our personal opinion.