If libertarians spent as much time defending civil liberties as they do economic

[Alexander Hamilton]

Libertarians have a pretty backwards definition of economic liberties anyway.

    This a perfect example of why I don't want to ally with Democrats.

Doesn't matter. The more you do - and unconditionally - the more likely they are to come around to your point of view, as reciprocation for your support.

benconstine, BushOklahoma, HappyWarrior, and NewDealDemocrat are all Democrats, though. They still seem to have at least as large a chunk of populists as the GOP does.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Libertarians have a pretty backwards definition of economic liberties anyway.

    This a perfect example of why I don't want to ally with Democrats.

Doesn't matter. The more you do - and unconditionally - the more likely they are to come around to your point of view, as reciprocation for your support.

     I'd prefer to work specifically with certain people (in both parties) rather than give a free ride to freedom-haters. Part of the reason we aren't taken seriously currently is that some of us are afraid to tell Republicans when they are wrong. Why would it be any better if we refused to tell Democrats when they are wrong?

That is why I tell both parties when they are wrong.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Libertarians have a pretty backwards definition of economic liberties anyway.

    This a perfect example of why I don't want to ally with Democrats.

Doesn't matter. The more you do - and unconditionally - the more likely they are to come around to your point of view, as reciprocation for your support.

     I'd prefer to work specifically with certain people (in both parties) rather than give a free ride to freedom-haters. Part of the reason we aren't taken seriously currently is that some of us are afraid to tell Republicans when they are wrong. Why would it be any better if we refused to tell Democrats when they are wrong?

To an extent, yes. The same thing that got us into this mess is capable of getting us out. The reason we're not taken seriously is because we look like purely cold-hearted capitalists. If we can start to find our own voice on civil liberties, the Democrats (surely soon to be in the minority yet again) will follow.

But that is attributable to Obama's fiscal stances being more damaging right now than his social ones. During the Bush years, libertarians gave vocal opposition to things such as the PATRIOT Act, Iraq War, steel tariffs, spending, etc.

We have to influence both sides with small government principles if we are ever to make an impact. We have to stand up and have our voice heard. And most importantly, we have start with local races, by finding appealing candidates with a message and funding them properly on a small scale.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Libertarians have a pretty backwards definition of economic liberties anyway.

    This a perfect example of why I don't want to ally with Democrats.

Doesn't matter. The more you do - and unconditionally - the more likely they are to come around to your point of view, as reciprocation for your support.

     I'd prefer to work specifically with certain people (in both parties) rather than give a free ride to freedom-haters. Part of the reason we aren't taken seriously currently is that some of us are afraid to tell Republicans when they are wrong. Why would it be any better if we refused to tell Democrats when they are wrong?

To an extent, yes. The same thing that got us into this mess is capable of getting us out. The reason we're not taken seriously is because we look like purely cold-hearted capitalists. If we can start to find our own voice on civil liberties, the Democrats (surely soon to be in the minority yet again) will follow.

But that is attributable to Obama's fiscal stances being more damaging right now than his social ones. During the Bush years, libertarians gave vocal opposition to things such as the PATRIOT Act, Iraq War, steel tariffs, spending, etc.

I don't think you understand. I don't expect Obama to win a second term, ala Bush. I fully expect him to be swept out of office in 2012 on a wave of nationalist/theocratic/racialist sentiment, by either Huckabee or Palin - and then the true face of the enemy will be exposed. And I fully expect that you and I will be increasingly on the defensive after that.

If my prognostications are correct, remember what I've advised in this thread.

I registered as a Republican to ensure Huckabee's defeat in the primary 2012. I am now so certain of his defeat that I am comfortable switching my registration to Democrat this month so I can vote in the Democratic primary for Senate.