Was 9/11 an inside job?

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

It's an easy bit of flying if you're a trained pilot, which is what each hijacker was.  And the terrorists had spent years planning this, which is why things went so smoothly - and remember, one of the terrorists had to stay in Germany because he couldn't get a visa.

Yeah, such expert pilots. Like Hani Hanjour....

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20A11FD35550C778CDDAC0894DA404482

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...who somehow managed to fly with military precision into the Pentagon.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040814205203/http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/2020/2020_011024_atc_feature.html

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Uh huh, so you seriously believe that nobody noticed anything when four commercial airliners were suddenly hijacked? And they still didn't notice when one-by-one the started crashing into buildings?

Why did Dick Cheney order NORAD to stand down?

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And I saw it live with my own eyes. That doesn't mean a damn thing.

And if there is so much evidence on your side, why are you afraid of an independent investigation?

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

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Of course it's unsafe.  That was their goal - not to safely fly it, but to fly it into a building and kill people.  If it had crashed into my neighborhood and killed everyone who lives near me, it would have been a success for them.

Don't shift the goalposts now. The fact of the matter is, the official story requires us to believe that a guy who was considered a "very bad pilot" at a pilot school a few months before 9/11 somehow piloted a 757 commercial jetliner with the skill of a military pilot into the side of the Pentagon.

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Good, then go convince your congresscritter to share this view.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Don't shift the goalposts now. The fact of the matter is, the official story requires us to believe that a guy who was considered a "very bad pilot" at a pilot school a few months before 9/11 somehow piloted a 757 commercial jetliner with the skill of a military pilot into the side of the Pentagon.

Their goal was to kill people; ideally by crashing into the Pentagon.  He knew how to fly a plan; unfortunately, he got lucky and was able to fulfill his job.

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Of course it's unsafe.  That was their goal - not to safely fly it, but to fly it into a building and kill people.  If it had crashed into my neighborhood and killed everyone who lives near me, it would have been a success for them.

Don't shift the goalposts now. The fact of the matter is, the official story requires us to believe that a guy who was considered a "very bad pilot" at a pilot school a few months before 9/11 somehow piloted a 757 commercial jetliner with the skill of a military pilot into the side of the Pentagon.

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Good, then go convince your congresscritter to share this view.

Yes, he was a very bad pilot because he didnt care about take offs and landings.  They were focused on learning how to steer the plane and he learned this pretty basic skill.

At least you didn't redact the relevant part of the other quote only choosing not to bold it.  Military pilots are allowed to operate a plan in manners way outside the boundaries of a commercial aircraft.  They do not have paying civilians to worry about barfing all over themselves and suing the airline for giving them a heart attack.  As phone transcript with the crew on the Atta plane indicate- he was flying waaaaaaaaay too fast down the Hudson line.  The didnt care about the passengers comfort.  However, as stated in previous post.  Level flight flying is not very difficult.

Guys, the unsafe part is irrelevant. The fact that the plane was flown like that at all- The "speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned"- displayed the skills of a military pilot. The way the plane pivoted is acknowledged as requiring a pilot of substantial skill, which Hanjour was not.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A14365-2001Sep11&notFound=true

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Yet you're telling me this could easily be done by a guy who couldn't control a Cessna at a flight school.


Here's a piece by an aeronautical engineer and pilot which pretty much demolishes the official story on this, addressing Hanjour as well as the other alleged "expert pilots." The idea that they could have pulled off what the official story alleges they pulled off is utterly absurd.


Of course Hanjour was also helped out by Dick Cheney ordering NORAD to stand down, allowing him to fly into the most restricted airspace in the world without interception despite the fact that it had been more than an hour since the WTC had been hit and they knew two planes were still missing.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Don't shift the goalposts now. The fact of the matter is, the official story requires us to believe that a guy who was considered a "very bad pilot" at a pilot school a few months before 9/11 somehow piloted a 757 commercial jetliner with the skill of a military pilot into the side of the Pentagon.

Their goal was to kill people; ideally by crashing into the Pentagon.  He knew how to fly a plan; unfortunately, he got lucky and was able to fulfill his job.

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Of course it's unsafe.  That was their goal - not to safely fly it, but to fly it into a building and kill people.  If it had crashed into my neighborhood and killed everyone who lives near me, it would have been a success for them.

Don't shift the goalposts now. The fact of the matter is, the official story requires us to believe that a guy who was considered a "very bad pilot" at a pilot school a few months before 9/11 somehow piloted a 757 commercial jetliner with the skill of a military pilot into the side of the Pentagon.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Good, then go convince your congresscritter to share this view.

Yes, he was a very bad pilot because he didnt care about take offs and landings.  They were focused on learning how to steer the plane and he learned this pretty basic skill.

At least you didn't redact the relevant part of the other quote only choosing not to bold it.  Military pilots are allowed to operate a plan in manners way outside the boundaries of a commercial aircraft.  They do not have paying civilians to worry about barfing all over themselves and suing the airline for giving them a heart attack.  As phone transcript with the crew on the Atta plane indicate- he was flying waaaaaaaaay too fast down the Hudson line.  The didnt care about the passengers comfort.  However, as stated in previous post.  Level flight flying is not very difficult.

Guys, the unsafe part is irrelevant. The fact that the plane was flown like that at all- The "speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned"- displayed the skills of a military pilot. The way the plane pivoted is acknowledged as requiring a pilot of substantial skill, which Hanjour was not.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A14365-2001Sep11&notFound=true

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Yet you're telling me this could easily be done by a guy who couldn't control a Cessna at a flight school.


Here's a piece by an aeronautical engineer and pilot which pretty much demolishes the official story on this, addressing Hanjour as well as the other alleged "expert pilots." The idea that they could have pulled off what the official story alleges they pulled off is utterly absurd.


Of course Hanjour was also helped out by Dick Cheney ordering NORAD to stand down, allowing him to fly into the most restricted airspace in the world without interception despite the fact that it had been more than an hour since the WTC had been hit and they knew two planes were still missing.

Hanjour was a trained and licensed pilot at one time.  Compared to other pilots he sucked at it because he couldnt get a job.  These guys didnt care to learn to take off and land a large Boeing in sim because they didnt have to.  They practiced there banking and you just aim and point.  He couldnt land a Cessna nor I'm sure a Boeing.  Although larger commercial aircraft are considered much easier to control than a Cessna in many facets of flight.

And flight schools wondered how the hell he ever got a license considering he was such a terrible pilot. He wasn't just bad at landing, he was bad at controlling the planes just as well.

Also, no offense, but I put more stock in a detailed analysis by an actual aeronautical engineer and pilot than your somewhat unsubstantiated conjecture here.

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Irrelevant.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Don't shift the goalposts now. The fact of the matter is, the official story requires us to believe that a guy who was considered a "very bad pilot" at a pilot school a few months before 9/11 somehow piloted a 757 commercial jetliner with the skill of a military pilot into the side of the Pentagon.

Their goal was to kill people; ideally by crashing into the Pentagon.  He knew how to fly a plan; unfortunately, he got lucky and was able to fulfill his job.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Of course it's unsafe.  That was their goal - not to safely fly it, but to fly it into a building and kill people.  If it had crashed into my neighborhood and killed everyone who lives near me, it would have been a success for them.

Don't shift the goalposts now. The fact of the matter is, the official story requires us to believe that a guy who was considered a "very bad pilot" at a pilot school a few months before 9/11 somehow piloted a 757 commercial jetliner with the skill of a military pilot into the side of the Pentagon.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Good, then go convince your congresscritter to share this view.

Yes, he was a very bad pilot because he didnt care about take offs and landings.  They were focused on learning how to steer the plane and he learned this pretty basic skill.

At least you didn't redact the relevant part of the other quote only choosing not to bold it.  Military pilots are allowed to operate a plan in manners way outside the boundaries of a commercial aircraft.  They do not have paying civilians to worry about barfing all over themselves and suing the airline for giving them a heart attack.  As phone transcript with the crew on the Atta plane indicate- he was flying waaaaaaaaay too fast down the Hudson line.  The didnt care about the passengers comfort.  However, as stated in previous post.  Level flight flying is not very difficult.

Guys, the unsafe part is irrelevant. The fact that the plane was flown like that at all- The "speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned"- displayed the skills of a military pilot. The way the plane pivoted is acknowledged as requiring a pilot of substantial skill, which Hanjour was not.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A14365-2001Sep11&notFound=true

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Yet you're telling me this could easily be done by a guy who couldn't control a Cessna at a flight school.


Here's a piece by an aeronautical engineer and pilot which pretty much demolishes the official story on this, addressing Hanjour as well as the other alleged "expert pilots." The idea that they could have pulled off what the official story alleges they pulled off is utterly absurd.


Of course Hanjour was also helped out by Dick Cheney ordering NORAD to stand down, allowing him to fly into the most restricted airspace in the world without interception despite the fact that it had been more than an hour since the WTC had been hit and they knew two planes were still missing.

Hanjour was a trained and licensed pilot at one time.  Compared to other pilots he sucked at it because he couldnt get a job.  These guys didnt care to learn to take off and land a large Boeing in sim because they didnt have to.  They practiced there banking and you just aim and point.  He couldnt land a Cessna nor I'm sure a Boeing.  Although larger commercial aircraft are considered much easier to control than a Cessna in many facets of flight.

And flight schools wondered how the hell he ever got a license considering he was such a terrible pilot. He wasn't just bad at landing, he was bad at controlling the planes just as well.

Also, no offense, but I put more stock in a detailed analysis by an actual aeronautical engineer and pilot than your somewhat unsubstantiated conjecture here.

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Irrelevant.

Is it also irrelevant that he isn't even a practicing pilot or an engineer.  A few people really tore this guy to shreds.  But I'm sure that will be irrelevant too.

Sources matter.

He was a commercial pilot for years, and he has a degree in aeronautical engineering...C'mon now, you're not even trying to discuss the actual issues, so why bother?

I'm wondering why I'm wasting my time here since apparently nobody is interested in actual open-minded debating; you're all just hoping for a chance to play "gotcha!" or to personally insult me for daring to disagree with the hive brain of the masses.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Libertas, he was not a commercial pilot and claims to have a Bachelors degree in engineering on his Linkedin and from 38years ago.  The dude writes new age religion books for a living.  How you do not see that this is a problem is beyond me?

Huh? I know you're older than the average Atlas poster, but you are really this shocked that I don't think him writing "new age religion books" is a problem?

I am a Catholic, but I don't really care what this guy's religion is. It's certainly not germane to the thread topic.

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I don't see how he's unreliable unless you have proof that he lied.

In addition, I am more interested in discussing actual issues related to 9/11, not the details of Nila Sagadevan's life. For example, that article of his which I posted addresses a few such issues.

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9/11 was no screw-up on the part of the U.S. government.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Libertas, you're still ignoring my question: if the government faked this then why did they do it in a way that muslims couldn't possibly have done it and tried to fake that it was done in a way that no one could have done? Why not just do it in a way that would have been possible for Muslim terrorists and leave it at that?

Muslims may have hijacked the planes. But they didn't bring the towers down.

People are easily fooled. The government knew that the overwhelming majority of people would just accept whatever story they put out uncritically. There are even useful idiots who do the regime's job for them in attacking any questioning of the 9/11 story as unpatriotic/retarded/offensive/etc. We see that on display right here in this thread. People don't want to believe that they've been lied to- and that they've fallen for the lies- by our oh-so-benevolent government that's always looking to protect us.

As P.T. Barnum said...you can fool some of the people all of the time; you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can never fool all of the people all of the time.

No, see, now you've done your little mistake again. You're still not answering my actual question, so I will try and ask it a third (or is it a fourth time?):

if the government faked this then why did they do it in a way that muslims couldn't possibly have done it and tried to fake that it was done in a way that no one could have done? Why not just do it in a way that would have been possible for Muslim terrorists and leave it at that?

You're claiming that the US government planned to do this and then blame it on Muslim terrorists. Then why did they do it in a way that you claim could not have been done by Muslim terrorists and then cover it up with a method you claim is physically impossible? Why not do it in a way that would have been feasible for Muslim terrorists?

I already answered this question. Whether the Muslim terrorists were actually capable of pulling it off was irrelevant; all that mattered was whether the people could be made to think that the Muslim terrorists were capable- and in fact, responsible- for the attacks. Judging by the poll results, obviously they could.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Libertas, you're still ignoring my question: if the government faked this then why did they do it in a way that muslims couldn't possibly have done it and tried to fake that it was done in a way that no one could have done? Why not just do it in a way that would have been possible for Muslim terrorists and leave it at that?

Muslims may have hijacked the planes. But they didn't bring the towers down.

People are easily fooled. The government knew that the overwhelming majority of people would just accept whatever story they put out uncritically. There are even useful idiots who do the regime's job for them in attacking any questioning of the 9/11 story as unpatriotic/retarded/offensive/etc. We see that on display right here in this thread. People don't want to believe that they've been lied to- and that they've fallen for the lies- by our oh-so-benevolent government that's always looking to protect us.

As P.T. Barnum said...you can fool some of the people all of the time; you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can never fool all of the people all of the time.

No, see, now you've done your little mistake again. You're still not answering my actual question, so I will try and ask it a third (or is it a fourth time?):

if the government faked this then why did they do it in a way that muslims couldn't possibly have done it and tried to fake that it was done in a way that no one could have done? Why not just do it in a way that would have been possible for Muslim terrorists and leave it at that?

You're claiming that the US government planned to do this and then blame it on Muslim terrorists. Then why did they do it in a way that you claim could not have been done by Muslim terrorists and then cover it up with a method you claim is physically impossible? Why not do it in a way that would have been feasible for Muslim terrorists?

I already answered this question. Whether the Muslim terrorists were actually capable of pulling it off was irrelevant; all that mattered was whether the people could be made to think that the Muslim terrorists were capable- and in fact, responsible- for the attacks. Judging by the poll results, obviously they could.

Irrelevant? How on Earth would that be irrelevant? You're making absolutely no sense whatsoever. What was the motive for picking a way that was, as you say, completely ridiculous and an obvious lie? Surely, they didn't choose this strategy just to allow you to easily realize that it must be a conspiracy?

Imagine you're Bush and Cheney and whoever else was in on this, and you sit around discussing how to go about it. Presumably you come up with the idea of doing controlled demolition. Then someone points out that this is not good because everyone will realize that Muslims couldn't have done it that way. The next logical step for me would have been to say "right, let's do it another way". You seem to think that they thought "well, let's pretend they did it by planes and set off two simultaneous events that must be perfectly coordinated or else we're screwed"* and then NO ONE thought it would be a problem that it was actually, according to you at least, physically IMPOSSIBLE to do it that way. Why would they think the first part was a problem, if the second wasn't?

It is, as I said, irrelevant. It didn't matter how the government did it; all that mattered is that the government could convince the people that Muslims did it. If the people could be made to believe that that's how things went down, then the government gets away with it, period. Using propaganda, controlling information and ideas, that's where the real battle was.

They knew even if it was technically impossible, only a few would dare to question, and those people would be trivialized and powerless. And that's exactly what happened. The questions were too little, too late, as the regime had already successfully started two wars, implemented police state measures, started torturing people, etc., etc., basically transforming the entire political landscape for the United States and much of the world on the basis of a falsified event.

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What bombs into the Pentagon?

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What are you talking about?

Anyway, quite a strange coincidence that the only plane that didn't make it to it's alleged target was the one headed for politicians rather than regular people.

[Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl]

Ironic that Libertas of all people believes that governments aren't incompetent and that only the government could have been precise enough to fly planes into buildings. Although I've always been curious as to how the passports of the accused were somehow left intact.

I've never said government is incompetent when it comes to killing people. That's government's specialty.

The more massive a conspiracy, the more likely it is to fail.

On the contrary, there's a point on the curve at which things become easier to succeed the larger they are. Too big to fail, so to speak.

"The great mass of people will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one."
--Adolf Hitler

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That's one of the worst attempts at "debunking 9/11 truth" I've ever seen. Plenty of cops and firemen have questioned the government's story, along with many people who lost loved ones on 9/11. Of course the top brass bureaucrats at the NYPD and FDNY aren't going to officially denounce their superiors as liars. That means nothing.

And the media? You mean the same media which uncritically beat the war drums for that other Bush conspiracy theory now exposed as a lie, weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? That was another Big Lie once commonly believed by Americans, and back then people were attacked for questioning that claim just as 9/11 Truthers are today.