SCOTUS overturns Roe megathread (pg 53 - confirmed)

[7,052,770]

So the media lied again

That's a bit of a leap, isn't it?

[7,052,770]

So the media lied again

That's a bit of a leap, isn't it?

No it isn’t , the mainstream media is largely Democratic Party hacks at this point who look to make the GOP look as bad as possible.

Trump was right when he called them fake news except the point that right wing cable outlets like Fox are fake too

But there's no evidence that "the media" told a lie at all. The media reported that a doctor claimed this happened, and at worst it will turn out that the doctor lied. And the fact that the rape was not reported to police is not really evidence that the rape did not happen, as the majority of them are not reported. And if the story is true, I think it's pretty likely that the family of the victim does not want to become the target of a major national news story and does not want the doctor "proving" that the story is real.

You are definitely stating as fact something that has not been established, and even if it does turn out that the story did not happen, you're putting the worst possible spin on it.

[7,052,770]

"Conservacord"'s cultish "eye-opening" made a total fool of OSR. Hopefully he comes to his senses and gets out of that vile snakepit before they warp his personality into something totally unrecognizable.

[7,052,770]

"Conservacord"'s cultish "eye-opening" made a total fool of OSR. Hopefully he comes to his senses and gets out of that vile snakepit before they warp his personality into something totally unrecognizable.

They still left out the fact that Ohio’s laws has exceptions for cases like this but as I said I have retraced my previous post

They did? I thought it was well established that this specific case would have been theoretically legal, but that providers are very either unequipped or scared to do it in this time of uncertainty.

Kinda like how abortion is still theoretically legal in Mississippi in the case of rape if there is a filed police report, but the 1 remaining abortion clinic is likely to close and none of the hospitals are going to do it either, so it will remain unavailable.

[7,052,770]

"Conservacord"'s cultish "eye-opening" made a total fool of OSR. Hopefully he comes to his senses and gets out of that vile snakepit before they warp his personality into something totally unrecognizable.

They still left out the fact that Ohio’s laws has exceptions for cases like this but as I said I have retraced my previous post

They did? I thought it was well established that this specific case would have been theoretically legal, but that providers are very either unequipped or scared to do it in this time of uncertainty.

Kinda like how abortion is still theoretically legal in Mississippi in the case of rape if there is a filed police report, but the 1 remaining abortion clinic is likely to close and none of the hospitals are going to do it either, so it will remain unavailable.

Yah the attorney general said it’s legal in cases like this .

That was already the probable case before he said so. The problem is that Ohio law is vague and doctors and providers may not be prepared to perform this generally illegal procedure and all of the potential fallout on short notice. Yes, probably this doctor would have been OK this time, but how can they guarantee a prosecutor won't coming sniffing around to investigate? You know every anti-abortion prosecutor wants to be the first high profile case to put a doctor in jail over this.

So even if a hospital is equipped and theoretically willing to perform a technically legal abortion (something that is not the case in Mississippi), there is going to be some extreme reluctance without more explicit laws and protections for the doctors in these situations. And that's not too much to ask for, if this was uncontroversially legal and available in a red state like Indiana.

[7,052,770]

"Conservacord"'s cultish "eye-opening" made a total fool of OSR. Hopefully he comes to his senses and gets out of that vile snakepit before they warp his personality into something totally unrecognizable.

They still left out the fact that Ohio’s laws has exceptions for cases like this but as I said I have retraced my previous post

They did? I thought it was well established that this specific case would have been theoretically legal, but that providers are very either unequipped or scared to do it in this time of uncertainty.

There was a news story about someone having problems accessing a medication for rheumatism that can also be used to induce abortions in Virginia--where, of course, no trigger laws or anything similar are even in place to begin with. At a certain point that begins to look like stupidity (at least in the sense of overspecializing beyond having any working knowledge of fields besides medicine) on the part of the rheumatologist, but it does seem to be true and to be of a piece with the general atmosphere of extreme uncertainty about what is and isn't actually against the law now and where.

I get it though. Sometime in the next year, there's going to be a real high-profile case where a doctor deems an abortion to be "medically necessary" and performs it, only for a prosecutor and jury to disagree and send that doctor to a very long jail sentence. No one wants to have any chance of being that unfortunate doctor.

[7,052,770]

Why does it matter if he's an immigrant? He's a child rapist, that's what he should be punished for.

If he wasn't allowed in the country, then it would be one fewer rape. Terrible what permissible immigration policies allow to happen to American children.

We could chemically castrate every male in the country and bring sex crimes to near 0. Is it terrible what the failure to do so allows to happen to American of all ages and genders?

[7,052,770]

This madness is coming to every state if we don't vote Democratic in November 2022 and November 2024.

If you disagree with me and think it's good and proper to have a national "no exceptions" ban on abortion, fair enough, but I don't want to hear a word of complaint in 2025 from people who failed to vote for pro-choice/Democratic candidates, regardless of their reason.

[7,052,770]

These doctors are terrified that a prosecutor and jury who just don't understand medicine very well will send them to long-term jail. We're in for a rough decade or more.

[7,052,770]

These doctors are terrified that a prosecutor and jury who just don't understand medicine very well will send them to long-term jail. We're in for a rough decade or more.

To me this seems that either more clear laws, better lawyers or most likely both are needed. Tbh I am extremely surprised at stories like that foa a variety of reasons; most notably that even when abortion was illegal here, any doctor that was even remotely reasonable would have given a woman in such a situation an abortion.

Now that I think about it, you know all those left wing states trying to position themselves as "abortion havens" or whatever? If they actually wanted to help, they should probably make it so any doctor that ends up in a trial in a state where abortion is illegal, gets a medical license on their state and help with relocation.

Once the doctor is on trial, it's too late. They would be well advised to leave the state immediately upon performing the life-saving abortion and hope to make it to a blue state on time.

[7,052,770]

https://mobile.twitter.com/samkarlin/status/1549116888831098881

I’ve limited sympathy for doctors who know what’s right and fail to do it because the law says otherwise. A significant minority wouldn’t think twice before illegally giving prescription drugs to friends.

I'm not going to judge someone too harshly for not wanting to throw away their whole life and go to prison for decades just to prove a point. Most of us have families and responsibilities that we need to stay on top of.

[7,052,770]

Saw in the news that Mississippi's last abortion clinic, the Jackson Women's Health Organization, is officially closed and will not reopen. Abortion is now completely unavailable in Mississippi, even in cases where it is theoretically "legal."

[7,052,770]

Saw in the news that Mississippi's last abortion clinic, the Jackson Women's Health Organization, is officially closed and will not reopen. Abortion is now completely unavailable in Mississippi, even in cases where it is theoretically "legal."

Some of those cases would be performed at a traditional hospital, like for emergency care, right?

I'll start with a disclaimer that I'm not an expert on this since luckily we never found ourselves in that situation, but it is my understanding that the 3 big hospitals in Jackson (UMC, St. Dominic, and Baptist) do not perform any type of abortions for any reason, period. In the past this wasn't that big of a deal because the JWHO was a <10 drive from all 3 of them.

Now ... who knows? I assume the state will prevent UMC from performing them, and the other two are explicitly affiliated with religious groups that oppose abortion. So I'm not sure. I would hope that truly life-threatening ones wouldn't be denied, but we've already seen that happening in other states, so we are in uncharted territory.

Also I don't know as much about the hospitals outside of Jackson, other than they tend to be much smaller, and with a few exceptions refer any difficult case to Jackson (or Birmingham, New Orleans, etc.) anyway.

[7,052,770]

This bitch needs his ass kicked.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/matt-gaetz-women-who-look-like-a-thumb-shouldnt-gripe-about-abortion-rights/ar-AAZUagX?li=BBnb7Kz

Funny, because my uncle used to joke "have you ever noticed that the women who are the most against abortion are the ones who are never going to need one??" I guess people can see what they want to see.

[7,052,770]

If President Biden (or any future President) were to pull an Andrew Jackson on this court (and render it impotent forever), I doubt there will be much of a backlash.

There's no reason not to. SCOTUS does not have the authority to determine what's constitutional or not other than the authority they give themselves. They can't enforce any of their rulings, while Biden has the National Guard which he can nationalize at will. Station the Guards at abortion clinics in red states like desegregated schools in the Jim Crow South to protect women getting abortions. There would be no recourse other than impeachment and removal which obviously wouldn't happen in a divided Senate, so he'd get off scot free.

What abortion clinics? It's too late in Mississippi, probably other states soon or already.

[7,052,770]

And here's a thought to put out there. What if women stopped having sex and having babies? What if women went on a protest? Where would our society be then? How would men like that?

That's how valuable women are to making this country great. And yet, look at what is happening to them on a physical level. We are treating our valuable female citizens who gave life to everyone reading this, as criminals and stupid morons who can't manage their own health and bodies. What a big cringe.

Interesting, a Lysistrata situation. That would require a pretty big organized effort though.

The only women who would have any reason to participate would be an activist pro-choice woman married to a man (or woman I guess) who opposed legal abortion, and even then probably only in states where abortion is now illegal. That's a pretty small percentage of marriages right there, and even if they all did it, how many of those affected men would have the power to change anything?

[7,052,770]

ABORTION IS ILLEGAL IN TENNESSEE!!!!

[7,052,770]

Most Democrats would agree to a 15 week national ban if no state were allowed to have any restrictions or bans earlier than that, and also prevented the gotchas like hallway widths, mandatory waiting periods, etc.

But obviously almost no Republicans would agree to that, and that is not remotely similar to what Graham is proposing here.

[7,052,770]

15 weeks is roughly on par with what France has, Republicans just need to stress that.

Does France let its provinces set earlier limits and outright bans, or is it a straight 15 everywhere?

[7,052,770]

What's more likely to happen first? 20 total bans, or return to 0?

[7,052,770]

What's more likely to happen first? 20 total bans, or return to 0?

It looks like there's a pretty hard ceiling around 18 or so, depending on how fast referenda get on the ballot in Western states and in the short run, it's likely to drop back toward 12 or so after the initiatives happen. 

Getting over 20 would probably require the kind of slow generational change scenario I described several weeks ago where basically the Roe/Casey era = Prohibition and allowing elective abortions today = being a dry state.   It would probably also have to involve a "pro-life because I would have been aborted under the old rules" youth voter movement in the 2040's.

There's also the question of supply. Interestingly, Mississippi would be grey on the map if the JWHO hadn't closed, because abortion is still theoretically legal in the case of rape, it's just that there is no clinic or hospital in the state that will do it. You could see national organizations start reopening clinics and moving the number back down. On the other hand, you could also see a push to states in the situation of Mississippi pass yet another law to take away the rape exemption.

I'd love to see the green states start putting "full protection for the first 13 weeks" on the ballot. I think it might win in half of them or more, and it needs to be timed with the 2024 or 2026 elections for coattails.