FBI search warrant executed at Mar-a-Lago (Update: Trump Indicted!)

[Badger]

The walls are closing in..

Part 3456.

Yawn.

Yeah, a federal judge signing off on the surprise raid of the home of a former president under criminal investigation is no big deal at all!

Meh..


Trump will continue to be badgered by politically motivated investigations for the rest of his life.. I make no apologies in tuning out of yet another round of the "walls are closing in."

. This is point and laugh level stupidity.

(Points)  hahahahahahhaha!!

[Badger]

What the Hell does the Orange Buffoon mean about "Hillary taking antique furniture from the White House"?
What is that?

He doesn’t know how to NOT deflect to Hillary!

The walls are closing in..

Part 3456.

Yawn.

Yeah, a federal judge signing off on the surprise raid of the home of a former president under criminal investigation is no big deal at all!

Meh..


Trump will continue to be badgered by politically motivated investigations for the rest of his life.. I make no apologies in tuning out of yet another round of the "walls are closing in."

“Der Fuhrer will continue to be badgered by politically motivated investigations for the rest of his life.. I make no apologies in tuning out of yet another round of the ‘walls are closing in.’” — Joseph Goebbels from the Fuhrerbunker, April 1945

Alben, you're rather prone to hyperbole..

Is there a comparison to Goebbels necessary ? Not particularly, given I'm right when it comes to how constant investigations which bear no fruit against political rivals can only be described as politically motivated.

No. That was an incredibly intellectually lazy post on your part deserving of every bit of ridicule imaginable. Go suck it up.

[Badger]

A Search Warrant is not an Arrest Warrant and an Arrest Warrant is not a Conviction

Someone is sweating like a dog over midterm results rather than criminality at the highest levels being punished.

Good Republican! Here's a cookie!

[Badger]

Where are the blue avatars?
This is major news.

Why do you post this in almost every thread. Is it cause you want to shame blue avatars

No, because blue avatars  SHOULD feel shame, but repeatedly demonstrate their inability to do so.

[Badger]

For the first time, I believe we will see large-scale political violence in this country in my lifetime.

As a reaction to the rule of law through a court-ordered search warrant being executed?

[Badger]

I am officially excited about politics again! I was just about ready to give up on the democratic experiment for a bit, but these anti-American traitors went after the wrong President. If anything comes of this, they will hear from us loud and clear not to make a mistake like this again.

Oh go pound sand.

[Badger]

I think it's absolutely hilarious how the supposedly "pro law enforcement" GOP is now trashing the FBI because it suits them politically. They're in fact the "defund the police" party and Dems need to hammer them on it day and night. This is what helped lose us 13 seats in the House in 2020 although it wasn't even true. Biden never called to defund the police, not even "Socialist Bernie" did so. Just to get the record straight.

An absolute garbage political party that continues to embrace the orange buffoon or is wannabe replacement DeathSantis.

Dems didnt lose the seats cause of "defund the police" but rather cause of 3 months of rioting in cities and also more importantly because house results are aligning with Presidential results as well so as long as the Presidential race was close so was the house races.

There's no real distinction here, because it directly seemed the confirm the (false) narrative Dems are weak on crime and somehow embrace the violent elements of otherwise justified protests. Biden and other key members of his party came out repeatedly against violent protests and denounced them.

On the other hand, Mr. Trump did not just remain complicit, he embraced January 6 protesters that directly attacked police and caused officers to die on that day. You're either for law & order or you aren't (with "you" I mean in general, not you personally).

1. Again then Democrats should have also condemned Governors/Mayors and Liberal Media Outlets who cheered on/appeased the rioters in the Summer of 2020. The Fact is it was unacceptable for it to go on as long as it was and the protests stopped being justifiable when so many of them turned into riots as well.

2. Who says the Republicans are not suffering from Jan 6th though. I would say without Jan 6th, 2022 even with Dobbs would be set up for a 1994/2010 level defeat given fundamentals so Republicans are underperforming.  Keep in mind Democrats still won a trifecta in 2020 despite whatever happened in the Summer of 2020 and everyone agrees they underperformed.

Similarly if 2022 isnt another 1994/2010 for the GOP then they underperformed as well.

Oh beep boop, You silly boy. Are you seriously falling for that brain dead conservative media meme that Democrats Beyond The Fringe in high places we're actually supportive the rioting as opposed to the BLM protests? And that Democrats from Biden downward Outside The Fringe condemned the violence? Foolish little silicon based life form!

[Badger]

The Clintons send their regards.

Clintons send their regards to the abortion crowd. Trump will see no jail time, and frankly if he sees it, it was worth it. She'll never be president though and his 4 years at office was consequental to every major policy which Supreme Court can impact.

But you have the memes lol

Good to see you're open about being an authoritarian goon. Who gives a damn about rule of law if we crammed our policies through the Supreme court?

[Badger]

Reminder that Trump has gone through multiple Democrat investigations and not ONCE been found guilty or even indicted.

Trump is invincible. Also, abolish the FBI.

"Democrat investigations". Lolol! Woodbury, never change. Not that you could.

[Badger]

If this is not related to the January 6th investigation then yes this is bad . Otherwise this opens up other presidents for prosecution given pretty much every president probably could be convicted under abuse of power statues and they would every time the other side takes the White House .

Jan 6th was the exception because of how bad it is , but this does not come to meeting that level. Otherwise abuse of power charges could pretty much lead to the prosecution of Bush , Obama and maybe even Clinton as well

Or, and just hear me out now, maybe he violated the law in a way that was unrelated to his ex-erable wrongdoing related to the January 6th insurrection, and the law should apply to him equally as it should any president or ex president. Shocking I know.

[Badger]

If this is not related to the January 6th investigation then yes this is bad . Otherwise this opens up other presidents for prosecution given pretty much every president probably could be convicted under abuse of power statues and they would every time the other side takes the White House .

Jan 6th was the exception because of how bad it is , but this does not come to meeting that level. Otherwise abuse of power charges could pretty much lead to the prosecution of Bush , Obama and maybe even Clinton as well

If Trump stashed national security secrets in his home safe and hasn't complied with surrendering them resulting in the FBI bring involved, should be just be allowed to get away with it?

Of course not. And the same goes for Bush, Obama, and maybe even Clinton. Lock them all up if warranted.

He he gave those to others than yes I’d agree then he should be charged otherwise no . I think these crimes are the ones that presidents really should be charged with :

- Treason
- Trying to illegally overturn elections
- Trying to Physically harm political opponents


Other than that let the political arena and the public  deal the consequences out

JFC that is unconscionable. Literally indefensible. Legally, ethically, morally, or intellectually.

[Badger]

Astonishing abuse of power. I can't defend this lawless administration anymore.

Obvious sock is obvious

[Badger]

If you want to go criminally after him , just focus on Jan 6th imo and nothing else

We all saw the photos of clear plastic boxes full of documents being packed up from the White House on Jan 19-20, 2021.  Why not try to find out whether or not he was illegally absconding with papers that were subject to the Presidential Records Act?

It'd be nice to hold Trump accountable for literally any of his crimes, but why focus on one specific avenue and ignore all others?

Cause of the precedent you would set . Like I said should Bush have been prosecuted for Guantanamo Bay or Obama for drones

Precedent? You want to talk president? How about establishing a precedent that one doesn't prosecute a president or ex-president for criminal wrongdoing severe enough for your own appointees to sign off and execute a search warrant because... well, to be frank you really aren't offering any sort of particular rule or guideline or other rationale to follow this other than it might make Republicans upset.

Seriously, even you can understand surely that if we're talking about establishing president, that is dead last among those that should be set.

[Badger]

If you want to go criminally after him , just focus on Jan 6th imo and nothing else

We all saw the photos of clear plastic boxes full of documents being packed up from the White House on Jan 19-20, 2021.  Why not try to find out whether or not he was illegally absconding with papers that were subject to the Presidential Records Act?

It'd be nice to hold Trump accountable for literally any of his crimes, but why focus on one specific avenue and ignore all others?

Cause of the precedent you would set . Like I said should Bush have been prosecuted for Guantanamo Bay or Obama for drones

Why not?  If crimes have been committed, they should be impartially investigated and prosecuted if necessary.  Anything else is a deeply troubling excuse for abuse of power.

Maybe this can actually set a precedent that as president you can't just do illegal stuff and let off the hook. Prosecuters should follow facts and the evidence. If a future Democratic president does something unlawful, he or she should be equally investigated.

Do you feel Bill Clinton was guilty of obstruction of Justice during the Lewinsky scandal and should’ve been removed from office? I’m not talking about the lying under oath charge in that case - I am specifically asking about the obstruction charge.

If he was guilty then, should he be prosecuted now?

You’re setting the precedent after all that Presidents can be charged with crimes after they leave office, for things done in office. If we set that precedent, it must be applied retroactively to Clinton and Bush Jr (IE Bush’s lies for the Iraq War).

Well, part of the rationale for the DOJ's opinion that sitting Presidents should not be charged while in office is that they could then be charged after leaving office, even for crimes committed in office.  If you can't charge them while in office or after they're out of office, it means they have carte blance to commit any crimes they want during their terms without fear of consequence.  Is that really what you want?  It would be a complete affront to the rule of law; NOBODY is above the law.  In the case of a sitting President, justice may be delayed to avoid disrupting the functioning of government, but it cannot be denied entirely.

If the DOJ thinks they can make a case against Clinton for obstruction, or Bush for the Iraq War, then by all means they should bring it.  It's worth noting that the DOJ had a draft indictment of Nixon for conspiracy to defraud the United States (the same crime the other Watergate conspirators were convicted of) ready to go after his resignation, but it was mooted by Ford's pardon.

And Ford was right to pardon Nixon

Arguably so. But fine. Leave that to the ominous and waiting decision of the president of the United States whether to do so, not by any means preemptively ignoring, failing to fully investigate, or writing off the option of criminal prosecution to begin with.

[Badger]

If you want to go criminally after him , just focus on Jan 6th imo and nothing else

We all saw the photos of clear plastic boxes full of documents being packed up from the White House on Jan 19-20, 2021.  Why not try to find out whether or not he was illegally absconding with papers that were subject to the Presidential Records Act?

It'd be nice to hold Trump accountable for literally any of his crimes, but why focus on one specific avenue and ignore all others?

Cause of the precedent you would set . Like I said should Bush have been prosecuted for Guantanamo Bay or Obama for drones

Why on Earth are you trying to compare "Guantanamo Bay and drones," to the taking of classified documents?
It's not even apples and oranges. It's more like apples and toothbrushes.
Your argument is silly.

[Badger]

No the reason why we are unable to deal with Trump is cause nobody has found a way to break his popularity with right of center voters in this nation . Do that and he is finished

It probably says a lot about the moral character of right-of-center voters that they still support Trump in spite of/because of everything he's done, no?

Not really , as the people I know who support him are extremely nice and kind people .

Really nice and kind people don't storm the Capitol

Well they did not

But still support Trump having driven a crowd to do so in order to undermine an election result. Tomato tomato. In other words at best that makes them merely treason enablers rather than outright traitors.

[Badger]

I do not necessarily believe someone holding an evil belief on a particular issue makes them evil or supporting an evil person necessarily makes them evil .

Why?

Cause what matters more is whether you would act on it or not imo .

Is voting not an example of acting on it?

No cause people can have many reasons to vote for someone .

Being willing to overlook evil is still endorsing evil.

"I just voted for Trump because of the tax cuts" is not a valid excuse.

No it is not :

They switched from Dems to GOP mainly cause they are pretty anti Woke and also were huge  fans of his foreign policy


Also they said the political alignment here is resembling India now with GOP being like the BJP and Dems being like the INC and you can guess what they like more

"Supporting candidates who undermine the rule of law and democratic norms is okay if they oppose critical race theory and wokeness (whatever that is)!"

A moving argument, beep boop. Truly compelling.

[Badger]

I want to go back to the main point of the topic, while I actually agree with OSR that purity tests are ridiculous when it comes to politics, that’s not what this thread is about. I am once again going to ask  him, and anyone who is asking for the immediate release of information by the FBI, if you are aware of both DOJ procedure and the fact Trump himself has the warrant and is legally able to release it at any time?

Trump should release it then.

I do feel there should be some kind of transparency regarding a case against a former president. Even Trump, who I despise.

No more or less than anyone else a judge signs a warrant against.

[Badger]

Anything that goes into unprecedented territory is going to be politicized. A former President has never been raided by the FBI but at the same time no former President has had as much dirt on him as Trump.

This times 10. Correct answer

[Badger]

Where was all this outrage from the right when Hillary was being investigated by the REPUBLICAN led FBI in 2016??

The Public knew what she was being investigated for. If this turns out to be espionage I will take back what I said in this thread btw but we need to know the info

Got it. So if it's related to espionage or j6, you'll take it all back. But if it's some other violation of American law, then this is overkill in your mind. Indisputable logic.

[Badger]

This is why we need immediate oversight and answers from the Justice Department on why the raid was conducted.  The DOJ seems to be downplaying the raid, which is not a very smart political calculation.   

Well they're not supposed to be political.

Merrick Garland is a political appointee.  Any raid/investigation into a former president is going to attract major political attention, so he should have been out in front of this with a major press conference the day after the raid was conducted.  Staying silent makes it seem like they're hiding something. 

Only to politically hackish cult members. (Shrug)

[Badger]

If Trump was mishandling classified information, then yes, the FBI should go retrieve that information.

If Trump was in possession of classified information, there's no reason that couldn't have been resolved cooperatively (or at most with a subpoena.)  Trump voluntarily surrended 15 boxes of documents to the National Archives back in January. 

Sure. No one knows yet what the warrant was for, but I highly doubt the FBI raids a former president's house if there was not something serious to it. I do not believe the conspiracies that somehow Biden is pushing the FBI to take out Trump before the next election. Biden probably wants to run against Trump again.

This is why we need immediate oversight and answers from the Justice Department on why the raid was conducted.  The DOJ seems to be downplaying the raid, which is not a very smart political calculation.   

Why can't Trump just tell us?

Tell us what?  That the FBI is on a fishing expedition and showed up to Mar-a-Lago to collect every piece of paper they could get their hands on?  He's already said that

He has a copy of the warrant and can release it.

As multiple posters have already said, it's unlikely the warrant contains any information as to why the search was conducted.

Georgia "the nice mod" Moderate, provided a link to an article that tells you all you need to know and more. I copied and pasted it below for your convenience. If true, it was the antithesis of a fishing expedition. That of course brings up the question of just why Trump was so intent on keeping records that it was a felony for him to keep. Feel free to speculate away on that one.

https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-informer-told-fbi-what-docs-trump-was-hiding-where-1732283

This reporting does not indicate that Trump was, as you say, "intent" on keeping classified information at Mar-A-Lago.  Quite the opposite, actually!  He had already voluntarily returned 15 boxes of documents to the National Archives in January.  If the FBI had reason to suspect that there were additional documents at Mar-a-Lago that still needed to be surrendered, it is not apparent why they needed to be seized in a raid instead of collected cooperatively (as before) or through the use of a subpoena. 

And yet They seized 15 boxes worth of documents. So if somebody steals $100,000 but returns 50,000 they should be above the law? This is literally the level of your so-called argument.

[Badger]

I really love how the current "defense" being offered by Republicans isn't even that Trump is innocent. They're just straight up admitting that they think the President should be above the law.

If you had your way , many members of the Bush admin would have been arrested and even many members of other admin and our foreign policy would be crippled .

Should John Bolton be arrested for admitting he was part of plans of regime change operations in other nations

Impeached maybe, but I've never heard anyone serious on our side - nice attempt at what about is a BTW - say that there was some basis to literally indict and convict Bush for criminal activities. Sure you hear online college students Screech about how I should be brought up for war crimes in The Hague yada yada yada, but you're talking points here are typical not in conjunction with reality. Thanks for playing though!

[Badger]

I really love how the current "defense" being offered by Republicans isn't even that Trump is innocent. They're just straight up admitting that they think the President should be above the law.

If you had your way , many members of the Bush admin would have been arrested and even many members of other admin and our foreign policy would be crippled .

Should John Bolton be arrested for admitting he was part of plans of regime change operations in other nations

No, he shouldn't but that's different from having possession of plans about a future planned regime change in Iran or something. Also very few Democrats actually supporting sending the Bush family to jail outside of a few clueless terminally online leftists.

That is cause they knew though that if you did try to prosecute Bush on some technicalities it would open the door for every president to be prosecuted . BTW this does not mean Trump can’t be prosecuted under what I believe cause :

1. If this rises to the level of espionage than yes he should be prosecuted

2. He is also under investigation for trying to illegally overturn the election both Federally and in Georgia and I think this is something presidents obviously should be prosecuted for as well

No you silly little man child. As noted no one other than some terminally online Fringe types with zero power in the party called on Bush to be indicted and prosecuted for actual crimes. Hell, few people actually called for him to be impeached, I'll be it someone more, for the falsehoods on which the Iraq War was based.

The reason Democrats didn't to indict and prosecute bush for crimes wasn't because of some mythical precedent that you have convinced yourself as being set up because President should be above the law unless they meet some nebulous test you haven't even been able to articulate, but because he didn't commit any actual crimes! Get a clue!

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/ChuckCallesto/status/1557588657397194752

Sure Jan....