Columbus, OH police officer fatally shoots 15 year old Black girl

[Badger]

Bodycam footage was just released

 she was running with the knife at the other girl, he shot her to stop her.

He prevented another girl from being stabbed with a deadly weapon.

Had the other girl trapped against a car and was trying to stab her.

link?

[Badger]

Also, just a few days ago in Columbus, mostly white college students at Ohio State University during a "ChittFest" party flipped over cars and caused other damage but yet there were no arrests or killing of those students. Wonder why?

I know the answer is supposed to be "racism is the cause of everything in America", but do you really not see why police would be more averse to shooting college students (at the flagship university of the state and economic anchor of the state's fastest growing metro area, no less) than they would random townies? Opening fire on college students involves a massive added layer of legal complexity considering the university is likely to be involved in any criminal proceedings, not to mention the fact these students are likely to be from wealthy families more likely to gain institutional clout and high caliber legal defense. It's no surprise that police are more likely to not shoot the sons of privilege and instead violently target the town's dispossessed.

This isn't a defense - it's instead pointing out that American liberals (who revere higher education and the safety and social prestige it confers) are going to be much more eager to reach for a racial explanation when a class-based explanation is right beneath their noses.

Debating about how much of this double standard is due to race and how much is due to class misses two crucial points. First, it's a double standard regardless of cause which has a decidedly non race-neutral impact. And secondly, it's indefensible.

[Badger]

Also, just a few days ago in Columbus, mostly white college students at Ohio State University during a "ChittFest" party flipped over cars and caused other damage but yet there were no arrests or killing of those students. Wonder why?

I know the answer is supposed to be "racism is the cause of everything in America", but do you really not see why police would be more averse to shooting college students (at the flagship university of the state and economic anchor of the state's fastest growing metro area, no less) than they would random townies? Opening fire on college students involves a massive added layer of legal complexity considering the university is likely to be involved in any criminal proceedings, not to mention the fact these students are likely to be from wealthy families more likely to gain institutional clout and high caliber legal defense. It's no surprise that police are more likely to not shoot the sons of privilege and instead violently target the town's dispossessed.

This isn't a defense - it's instead pointing out that American liberals (who revere higher education and the safety and social prestige it confers) are going to be much more eager to reach for a racial explanation when a class-based explanation is right beneath their noses.

Debating about how much of this double standard is due to race and how much is due to class misses two crucial points. First, it's a double standard regardless of cause which has a decidedly non race-neutral impact.

I didn't say it's not a double standard. Race and class are very obviously related to each other, especially in a major college town (I lived in a mostly black working class neighborhood my last year of college). My point was that targeting townies and not targeting college students was being framed as a race issue when other plausible explanations are quite evident.

And secondly, it's indefensible.

I quite literally said my argument was not a defense.

Right, I saw that, and agree. I'm just pointing out that the issue over whether it's race or class is secondary as to the fact it is, as we agree, indefensible.

And honestly, the class versus race question has going on for over a century. Double standards like this have their roots in both.

However, at the end of the day, if this occurred at HBUC with largely middle-class African American kids involved, you can bet your bottom dollar that white cops would have been out in full force.

[Badger]

Bodycam footage was just released

 she was running with the knife at the other girl, he shot her to stop her.

He prevented another girl from being stabbed with a deadly weapon.

Had the other girl trapped against a car and was trying to stab her.

Isn't there a stand your ground question here, legally? She was on her own property. Not sure how the law applies here though.

That being said in other circumstances there almost certainly would be people defending her as standing her ground/defending her property.

Good question, but I don't think so. The stand-your-ground law applies for protecting oneself while one is within one's residence or vehicle. It is legally presumed by a preponderance of the evidence under Ohio law that using deadly Force Under such circumstances is self-defense. But again, that's only a preponderance, and more so only applies within the residence, not the front yard like this.

Even then, yes the prosecutor needs to prove a lack of self-defense Beyond A Reasonable Doubt. But whatever transpired beforehand even if these other girls were trying to force their way into the decedent's home previously, the decedent was clearly the aggressor and milliseconds away from stabbing that girl in the pink.

I think the cop did the right thing under an amazingly close micro second level decision. Nevertheless, it is beyond tragic that a 15 year old honor student is dead because of her teenage hormones and adrenaline of being assaulted didn't come under control soon enough for some other resolution.

[Badger]

Also, just a few days ago in Columbus, mostly white college students at Ohio State University during a "ChittFest" party flipped over cars and caused other damage but yet there were no arrests or killing of those students. Wonder why?

I know the answer is supposed to be "racism is the cause of everything in America", but do you really not see why police would be more averse to shooting college students (at the flagship university of the state and economic anchor of the state's fastest growing metro area, no less) than they would random townies? Opening fire on college students involves a massive added layer of legal complexity considering the university is likely to be involved in any criminal proceedings, not to mention the fact these students are likely to be from wealthy families more likely to gain institutional clout and high caliber legal defense. It's no surprise that police are more likely to not shoot the sons of privilege and instead violently target the town's dispossessed.

This isn't a defense - it's instead pointing out that American liberals (who revere higher education and the safety and social prestige it confers) are going to be much more eager to reach for a racial explanation when a class-based explanation is right beneath their noses.

Debating about how much of this double standard is due to race and how much is due to class misses two crucial points. First, it's a double standard regardless of cause which has a decidedly non race-neutral impact.

I didn't say it's not a double standard. Race and class are very obviously related to each other, especially in a major college town (I lived in a mostly black working class neighborhood my last year of college). My point was that targeting townies and not targeting college students was being framed as a race issue when other plausible explanations are quite evident.

And secondly, it's indefensible.

I quite literally said my argument was not a defense.

Right, I saw that, and agree. I'm just pointing out that the issue over whether it's race or class is secondary as to the fact it is, as we agree, indefensible.

And honestly, the class versus race question has going on for over a century. Double standards like this have their roots in both.

However, at the end of the day, if this occurred at HBUC with largely middle-class African American kids involved, you can bet your bottom dollar that white cops would have been out in full force.

This is actually a fairly middle class neighborhood judging by the housing density/lawn, and I checked the census tract too and MHI  is around 60k.

That kind of proves my point, no? Though you are basically correct that it is, depending on the Block you are in, largely working-class to middle-class African-American neighborhood.

[Badger]

Right, I saw that, and agree. I'm just pointing out that the issue over whether it's race or class is secondary as to the fact it is, as we agree, indefensible.

And honestly, the class versus race question has going on for over a century. Double standards like this have their roots in both.

However, at the end of the day, if this occurred at HBUC with largely middle-class African American kids involved, you can bet your bottom dollar that white cops would have been out in full force.

Fair enough. I think we largely agree. I am tired of people on the left only being able to muster outrage at racial injustice while turning a blind and disinterested eye to all else.

This is actually a fairly middle class neighborhood judging by the housing density/lawn, and I checked the census tract too and MHI  is around 60k.

Can you provide a link? I tried looking but wasn't able to find this.

There's still distinction between income and class in a college town. Often it's a dividing line between students or degree holders and locals who work service or manual jobs related to the university. People who clean the classrooms and serve hungover students their breakfast are unquestionably in a different stratum than those who are attracted for some sort of knowledge-industry work.

Columbus is a large enough city that the economy is diverse and elements of this start to crumble. But  I wouldn't be surprised if some element of overpolicing the unruly townies to keep the rich college kids who pump millions into the local economy feeling safe was still present.

There is definitely some of that, but it carries a rather racial element to it. The blocks just south, and eventually southeast of Campus - - east of High Street all the way to I-71 and the cracks running alongside them is largely say fish student ghettos until you start hitting the far south edge of Campus, then when you start going more than a few blocks East off high it gets kind of dodgy. Those neighborhoods get kind of rough, and they are heavily African-American. New paragraph, there's been a great deal of gentrification and revitalization starting from the north edge of downtown in neighborhoods like the Short North, Italian Village and Victorian Village. A lot of gay couples moved in early on - - gays and lesbians always seem to be in the Forefront of gentrification it - - and other young couples and professionals have follow. It's getting to the point where, optimally, the sketchy neighborhoods up and down 4th Street and Summit Street between downtown and campus will be largely safe.

[Badger]

Why do these always happen in the midwest?

Easily the most racist part of the country

That's some grade A projection right there.

[Badger]

Why do these always happen in the midwest?

Easily the most racist part of the country

That's some grade A projection right there.

Whether the South or Midwest is more racist is not easy to measure, but the Midwest is without a doubt more segregated. Just look at demographic maps of Detroit, Chicago and Milwaukee. Columbus is an exception though, it's reasonably well integrated.

This is somewhat true oh, but perhaps exaggerated when one looks at maps of places like Memphis or New Orleans.

That said, the sociology Professor friend of mine I mentioned earlier in this thread once commented to me that the difference between racism in the South versus racism the north is that in the South whites tell blacks you can get as close as you want just don't get too uppity, whereas in the North White's tell blacks you can get as uppity as you want, just don't get too close.

[Badger]

I really can't see an argument for self defense once the cops arrived. Right before she was about to stab the pink girl, the pink girl was literally walking away from the situation and towards the cops. Everyone was reasonably safe once the cops arrived.

Respect to the cop for the accuracy in shooting only at the stabber and not the girl in pink. Even at close range that seems like a relatively tough shot.

We don't know what happened before the body cam footage starts or why the girl called the police though. Not saying it was warranted, but there's obviously context missing here.

But that background is not relevant to the shooting. Even if the shooting victim was completely justified in brandishing a knife beforehand against these other girls allegedly trying to force their way into her home and assault her, she had exactly zero factual or legal justification to attempt stabbing that girl in the pink as the police arrived.

Also, I'm not going to say that it never occurs, but the whole shoot him in the leg stuff is pure TV or movie cop BS. That statement was one of the more cringe-worthy things I've ever heard Biden say.

The one remaining question in my mind is why the cop drew his pistol rather than his taser. It may very well be that CPD policy is to draw a firearm upon identification of a deadly weapon being brandished , but I'm not sure.

[Badger]

It's tough to criticize a split-second decision, but it would have been better for the officer to follow President Biden's suggestion to shoot in the leg.

That was an ignorant comment from Biden and wouldn't be applicable in this case. Even an Olympic sharpshooter would have difficulty hitting a leg on a moving person in the split second time available like in that video. That's a movie trope, not a realistic thing.

I agree this is not a great case to make a stand over, but her backside/thighs are as big of a target as her chest in that video.

Dude.

[Badger]

This could probably have been solved in a different manner, by some warning shots from the police officer instead of outright killing her.

Have you actually watched the video? It is incomprehensible that anyone could have done so, and by any objective standard think he could have suddenly talked the deceased down, shot her in the leg, tased her, scared her off with warning shots, do a judo double backflip and disarmed the girl from six feet away, Etc.

[Badger]

This could probably have been solved in a different manner, by some warning shots from the police officer instead of outright killing her.

By the time it would take to shoot a warning shot the girl in the pink would already be stabbed.

That’s absurd.

People don’t always die because of a stab wound, certainly not from a 16-year old girl half-heartedly trying to stab another girl.

In the best case, both of them would be alive now, just with the difference that the other girl might have needed a few stitches ...

"People don't always die of a stab wound." Jesus tap-dancing Christ, tender.

Okay, people don't always die from being shot either. Pretty stupid argument either way isn't it?

You might want to Google the terms artery and jugular before posting something this block headed again.

[Badger]

Reading police related shooting threads over the years, it seems to me libertarians care more about loosening poison control regulations than anything related to the militarized police, voter suppression or systematic racism. Always defending the cop. No wonder 99% are white Christians or atheists who think being atheists makes them persecuted.

I've been reading Black Lives Matter threads over the past year, it seems to me activists care more about "abolishing the police" and "killing all white people" than any realistic reform on policing and race relations.  Always defending the victim, even if she had out a knife and was getting ready to kill someone.  No wonder 99% of Twitter SJWs are radicalized individuals who want to destroy America.

An excellent point. My wife and her largely but not exclusively White BLM activists members of our church have often thought about suicide as a way of solving racism. Some of our black parishioners have offered to shoot us to help root out the Whitey problem.

Kudos on truly having your thumb on the pulse of the BLM movement. My goodness, it's totally not like looking into a funhouse mirror of distorted racist right-wing bullsh**t at all. Well done indeed.

[Badger]

Glad to see everyone here is trying to live in their own little self deluded corner ignoring that yes, race was a determinant in the cops actions here. You don't see white active shooters or armed suspects after violent incidents being taken out, yet their first instinct is shoot to kill if the suspect is black--as tends to be their response, armed or not.

That’s... not true?

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/18/us/burnsville-minnesota-police-shooting/index.html

https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/ac-cn-maryland-state-police-shooting-2021413-20210413-4s25mmj3iffldelmnrbg7j76tm-story.html

https://www.actionnewsnow.com/content/news/Man-killed-in-Redding-officer-involved-shooting-574149341.html

https://katu.com/news/local/32-year-old-killed-in-officer-involved-shooting-in-corvallis-on-saturday

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/douglas-county-sheriffs-deputies-fatally-shoot-man-near-happy-canyon

https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local/macoupin-county-fatal-officer-involved-shooting/63-af72724a-16c2-4067-bab5-aaebe8334512

https://www.9news.com/article/news/crime/lakewood-officer-involved-shooting/73-5c6edaa1-d5a3-4f70-8adc-1d0a8c3d3042

    This is 7 times in the month of April alone a white person has been shot dead by police in the United States. Do you get your information from Twitter?

Notice these all appear to involve the suspect directly threatening officers themselves.

So... cops should stand idly by if people are threatening to kill others, and not the officer themself?

At that point, they are literally useless.

As a former Security office you wound the person, not aim to kill unless they use lethal force, she had a knife not a gun, he should of shot her in the leg to wound, he didn't have to kill her

Cops have bullet proof vest on anyways just like Chauvan, cops are protected

Wait a minute. Are you saying that YOU were once a security guard? And your employers actually equipped you with A LOADED GUN?!?

Dear God in heaven....

[Badger]

Reading police related shooting threads over the years, it seems to me libertarians care more about loosening poison control regulations than anything related to the militarized police, voter suppression or systematic racism. Always defending the cop. No wonder 99% are white Christians or atheists who think being atheists makes them persecuted.

I've been reading Black Lives Matter threads over the past year, it seems to me activists care more about "abolishing the police" and "killing all white people" than any realistic reform on policing and race relations.  Always defending the victim, even if she had out a knife and was getting ready to kill someone.  No wonder 99% of Twitter SJWs are radicalized individuals who want to destroy America.

An excellent point. My wife and her largely but not exclusively White BLM activists members of our church have often thought about suicide as a way of solving racism. Some of our black parishioners have offered to shoot us to help root out the Whitey problem.

Kudos on truly having your thumb on the pulse of the BLM movement. My goodness, it's totally not like looking into a funhouse mirror of distorted racist right-wing bullsh**t at all. Well done indeed.

Here you have the "official" response of BLM.


"police wasted no time in senselessly taking another Black child."
"Another Black life stolen with no regard."


In my opinion, fairly close to "distorted racist right-wing bullsh**t".


https://twitter.com/JerylBier/status/1386671066492383233

There is no "National BLM organization" that seriously represents the movement. There are a handful of disparate and fractured nonprofits cross the country use the word black lives matter in their title. Of which about literally 98 + percent of individuals involved in a local community BLM organizations like at my church have no membership or contact with.

You too are doing a phenomenal job establishing your ignorance on this subject.