Trump admin defends inhumane conditions for children at its concentration camps

[Badger]

I think we should avoid the Holocaust comparisons.

 the Japanese internment camp comparison is absolutely appropriate and thus more compelling.

That too was, "just enforcing the law".

[Badger]

I'm sure glad Atlas lets bigots like Hollywood run wild over threads like this.

Stop your criticism! Calling him a bigot unless he is a card-carrying member of the American Bigot Party is clearly a personal attack!

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/rauchway/status/1141494927127277568

But... But... David the fascist apologist said it wasn't?!?

[Badger]

I think we should avoid the Holocaust comparisons.

 the Japanese internment camp comparison is absolutely appropriate and thus more compelling.

That too was, "just enforcing the law".

Why has no one called you out for "False Equivilencies"?  Why?  Atlas is the place where the experts call people out for "False Equivilencies", so why haven't you been called out?  People have felt obliged to do so in far less time than I've done with you.

The Japanese Americans were just that:  Americans, and law-abiding citizens whose internment was, in no small measure, part of a land and loot grab.  It was shameful, but what made it shameful was that it was perpetrated against persons who were American citizens, and innocent American citizens at that.

The illegal aliens that have crashed are borders are not law-abiding and not citizens.  They have willfully crashed our borders or overstayed their visas to stay here, and they have refused to return to their homelands, missed court dates on their immigration issues, and disregarded our laws.  The detention centers for illegal immigrants are what they are (crowded and underfunded) because that system was not built for the number of illegal aliens we have now.  And illegal immigration is being encouraged by American leftists, who are sending out the message that once Trump is gone and a Democratic President is in the White House, "no sweat".  

The people in the detention centers either crashed our border or submitted asylum claims that were patently false.  Let's spend more on these facilities, so these folks will be more comfortable while they await deportation.  But let's deport those who should not be here.  Let's enforce our laws and send the message that we will do exactly that when it comes to our immigration laws.  The interests of American Citizens and Taxpayers are supposed to come before the interests of foreigners under our Constitution.  

They are a seeking Asylum. Until Trump Administration basically stack the deck to make it literally near impossible to legally buy for Asylum, they were almost all complying with the law. Remember, over 99% showed up for their hearings under the Obama Administration.

Sorry dude, according to the US Supreme Court in the lot the time, the Japanese internment was completely legal. That of course does it change it from being one of the most grotesque and unjust moments in American history. Analogy here is completely apt. And trust me, those Japanese, not all of whom were citizens by any means, were absolutely seen as Invaders. You are either intellectually dishonest or bankrupt in trying to claim otherwise.

[Badger]

I think we should avoid the Holocaust comparisons.

 the Japanese internment camp comparison is absolutely appropriate and thus more compelling.

That too was, "just enforcing the law".

Why has no one called you out for "False Equivilencies"?  Why?  Atlas is the place where the experts call people out for "False Equivilencies", so why haven't you been called out?  People have felt obliged to do so in far less time than I've done with you.

The Japanese Americans were just that:  Americans, and law-abiding citizens whose internment was, in no small measure, part of a land and loot grab.  It was shameful, but what made it shameful was that it was perpetrated against persons who were American citizens, and innocent American citizens at that.

The illegal aliens that have crashed are borders are not law-abiding and not citizens.  They have willfully crashed our borders or overstayed their visas to stay here, and they have refused to return to their homelands, missed court dates on their immigration issues, and disregarded our laws.  The detention centers for illegal immigrants are what they are (crowded and underfunded) because that system was not built for the number of illegal aliens we have now.  And illegal immigration is being encouraged by American leftists, who are sending out the message that once Trump is gone and a Democratic President is in the White House, "no sweat".  

The people in the detention centers either crashed our border or submitted asylum claims that were patently false.  Let's spend more on these facilities, so these folks will be more comfortable while they await deportation.  But let's deport those who should not be here.  Let's enforce our laws and send the message that we will do exactly that when it comes to our immigration laws.  The interests of American Citizens and Taxpayers are supposed to come before the interests of foreigners under our Constitution.  

They are a seeking Asylum. Until Trump Administration basically stack the deck to make it literally near impossible to legally buy for Asylum, they were almost all complying with the law. Remember, over 99% showed up for their hearings under the Obama Administration.

Sorry dude, according to the US Supreme Court in the lot the time, the Japanese internment was completely legal. That of course does it change it from being one of the most grotesque and unjust moments in American history. Analogy here is completely apt. And trust me, those Japanese, not all of whom were citizens by any means, were absolutely seen as Invaders. You are either intellectually dishonest or bankrupt in trying to claim otherwise.

The moral question is fundamentally different.  The interred Japanese were citizens (for the most part) who had broken no laws.  Today's detainees are neither.

The morality is precisely the same. Meaning of the interred Japanese were not citizens. But the bottom line is they are being detained in horrendous conditions as a manner of deterrence for immigration. The morality is the same. As a Christian you should theoretically understand that treating someone as a fellow Christian should be done regardless of what passport they hold!. And please don't embarrass yourself further by quoting whatever internet genius said that because biblical are the cities, which held literally about 2% of the population at the time, had walls sometime that what we're doing now is remotely biblical.

You are wrong about this being just enforcement of the law. You are wrong about this being race-neutral. You are wrong about this being moral. You are wrong about this being Christian by any measure. You are just plain wrong.

[Badger]

I think we should avoid the Holocaust comparisons.

 the Japanese internment camp comparison is absolutely appropriate and thus more compelling.

That too was, "just enforcing the law".

Japanese-American internment was an active policy of removing people from their homes.  The present situation is a passive policy of not providing adequately for people who have left their homes and are seeking asylum.  These are very different situations.  "Close the camps" is not an appropriate response here, it's not a solution to anything.  Resources need to be put forward to create something better for asylum seekers.

This sounds very reasonable but it totally ignores the fact that before Trump was President, asylum-seekers were released and tracked while their cases were being processed, which alleviated a lot of pressure on the system...

We don't need to waste taxpayer dollars on this garbage, we can just go back to the old system.

For unaccompanied minors wasn't it pretty much the same system as now?

No, I don't believe this is the case, they were released to live with relatives whenever possible in the past IIRC. Obviously, this wasn't always possible but it alleviated a lot of pressure placed on facilities.

None of this is about logistics, it's a concerted attempt to treat migrants in the most cruel manner possible to discourage migration. It happens to be more expensive than being humane. 

Bingo. And the rate of individuals released who sewed up for their Asylum hearings, especially after the Obama Administration implemented a relatively inexpensive rule having a social worker assigned to follow up with families pending the hearing, was literally above 99%.

It cannot be said often or strong enough. Trump is explicitly misusing the law as a cudgel two first shut down most ports of entry for Asylum Seekers so they can be labeled so-called illegal, as in committing a misdemeanor offense, immigrants. Secondly, he and Stephen Miller and those types are explicitly, and have said publicly many many times, using these inhumane conditions as a deterrent to any other persons in Central America seeking Asylum. Which by the way, let's not forget, it's completely 110% legal! Legal legal legal legal legal!!!!

This has zero to do with enforcing the law, and 100% about reducing the non-white share of the population. After all, someone's doing the raping.

This is clear from everything Trump is explicitly doing, saying, and everything he has ever said on the subject of immigrants.

[Badger]

Obama's social worker and ankle bracelet policy worked really well so of course, Trump had to blow it up and deny kids diapers.

[Badger]

Shout it from the rafters: the cruelty is the point. They think treating children this way will be a deterrent. They’ve said that.

This times a million.

AND these Asylum Seekers are only "illegal" for committing the misdemeanor offense of seeking Asylum through a non-designated Port of Entry , but only after the Trump Administration undesignated numerous ports of entry for that purpose. This is explicitly so he can rail about so-called illegal immigrants, because there are a lot of Americans whom, while they wouldn't tolerate such savagery and internment camps for Asylum Seekers, can be misled into believing that the only choices are this type of barbarism and open borders.

[Badger]

It's one thing to demand that migrants respect the rule of law -but is it really necessary to treat them worse than animals to drive home the point?  I am glad we got those Civil War amendments passed, otherwise some here would be advocating their enslavement. 

Do you support an immediate appropriation of necessary monies to increase the number of facilities of this nature and upgrade their conditions so that persons pending deportation will have more comfortable housing while awaiting deportation?

Oh piss off with that garbage. These kids are being denying soap and toothbrushes because this administration is nothing but a bunch of reactionary street thugs not because the American taxpayers can’t take the financial hit

The American taxpayers can take the financial hit, sure.  But they haven't, because DC is dysfunctional and delinquent on this issue, has been for years, when it comes to providing the resources necessary for the number of asylum seekers that increase year after year. Refugees are staying in facilities that were never meant to hold people overnight, because that's what's available. The Trump administration owns the lion share of the blame for the current situation, but Congress and the Obama administration are not blameless either.

These facilities have run to overcrowding explicitly because of the Trump policy of holding Danny or anyone who's an asylum-seeker rather than releasing most of families and follow up with social workers, so that literally over 99% return for their Asylum hearings.

So yes, this is literally 99 + percent the Trump administration's handiwork and responsibility. Nice try at deflection though.

[Badger]

It's one thing to demand that migrants respect the rule of law -but is it really necessary to treat them worse than animals to drive home the point?  I am glad we got those Civil War amendments passed, otherwise some here would be advocating their enslavement. 

Do you support an immediate appropriation of necessary monies to increase the number of facilities of this nature and upgrade their conditions so that persons pending deportation will have more comfortable housing while awaiting deportation?

Oh piss off with that garbage. These kids are being denying soap and toothbrushes because this administration is nothing but a bunch of reactionary street thugs not because the American taxpayers can’t take the financial hit

The American taxpayers can take the financial hit, sure.  But they haven't, because DC is dysfunctional and delinquent on this issue, has been for years, when it comes to providing the resources necessary for the number of asylum seekers that increase year after year. Refugees are staying in facilities that were never meant to hold people overnight, because that's what's available. The Trump administration owns the lion share of the blame for the current situation, but Congress and the Obama administration are not blameless either.

These facilities have run to overcrowding explicitly because of the Trump policy of holding Danny or anyone who's an asylum-seeker rather than releasing most of families and follow up with social workers, so that literally over 99% return for their Asylum hearings.

So yes, this is literally 99 + percent the Trump administration's handiwork and responsibility. Nice try at deflection though.

You seriously believe the fact that immigrant facilities were already overburdened before the number of children and families crossing the border skyrocketed in the past couple years is
irrelevant?   

Do you think they should release unaccompanied minors out onto the streets, or send them back to Central America?

Hmmmm. If ONLY there was a third option....

[Badger]

It's one thing to demand that migrants respect the rule of law -but is it really necessary to treat them worse than animals to drive home the point?  I am glad we got those Civil War amendments passed, otherwise some here would be advocating their enslavement. 

Do you support an immediate appropriation of necessary monies to increase the number of facilities of this nature and upgrade their conditions so that persons pending deportation will have more comfortable housing while awaiting deportation?

Oh piss off with that garbage. These kids are being denying soap and toothbrushes because this administration is nothing but a bunch of reactionary street thugs not because the American taxpayers can’t take the financial hit

The American taxpayers can take the financial hit, sure.  But they haven't, because DC is dysfunctional and delinquent on this issue, has been for years, when it comes to providing the resources necessary for the number of asylum seekers that increase year after year. Refugees are staying in facilities that were never meant to hold people overnight, because that's what's available. The Trump administration owns the lion share of the blame for the current situation, but Congress and the Obama administration are not blameless either.

These facilities have run to overcrowding explicitly because of the Trump policy of holding Danny or anyone who's an asylum-seeker rather than releasing most of families and follow up with social workers, so that literally over 99% return for their Asylum hearings.

So yes, this is literally 99 + percent the Trump administration's handiwork and responsibility. Nice try at deflection though.

You seriously believe the fact that immigrant facilities were already overburdened before the number of children and families crossing the border skyrocketed in the past couple years is
irrelevant?   

Do you think they should release unaccompanied minors out onto the streets, or send them back to Central America?

Hmmmm. If ONLY there was a third option....

Which is what Badger?

Oh, you know, not to chain them in dog kennels instead turn them over to Foster families while they wait for Asylum determination and or deportation? I mean, that it is that whole enforcing the law and doing it in a Smart Way thing. Unlike the grossly dishonest method that most conservatives had said that it's either enforce the law and set up internment camps for the first time in 80 years, or let Anarchy run loose on the border.

BTW, no whatever crowding these detention camps had previously is a hundred times worse now because there is no equivalent of bond. Again, the law allows it, but Trump Administration politics don't. Not to mention, as has been mentioned herein, and the Trump Administration has been very very very upfront and vocal about, they want Central Americans to see the miserable horrific condition that these children are put in to deter other families from dreaming about legally applying for Asylum.

[Badger]

They can't just immediately turn them over to foster families.  They need to place them somewhere in the meantime.  Which means they need a place to stay, food, medicine, etc. Which means the government needs to give CBP/ICE and HHS the $$$ to provide this.

here's the situation:

The Trump administration definitely has made a choice to keep single adults in detention, even if it could release them. Border Patrol chief Carla Provost has told Congress that “if we lose (the ability to keep and deport) single adults, we lose the border.” That does raise questions about whether the overcrowding in adult facilities could be avoided.

But it doesn’t address the issue of unaccompanied children, who can’t simply be released with a notice to appear in immigration court. While children with parents in the US could theoretically be placed with those parents, the government is supposed to vet potential sponsors to make sure it’s not placing children with traffickers — but that’s the job of HHS, and the vetting doesn’t begin until children are released from Border Patrol custody.

Observers and policymakers agree that HHS simply doesn’t have the capacity to take migrant kids in. One Democratic Hill staffer compared it to a “jigsaw puzzle”: Not only are there only so many spaces available to place a child, but the facilities available might not match the child’s particular needs. (You can’t put an infant in an HHS shelter for teens, for example.) But another Hill staffer told Vox that HHS claims it’s never refused a transfer for space reasons, muddying the waters.

Read the whole article.  Maybe since it's at Vox you won't reflexively dismiss it as apologetics for the Trump administration, but either way Dara Lind is the best reporter on immigration issues I've come across.

Um, Did YOU actually read the whole article?

What fevered imagination could Interpret this as other than a stinging indictment of the Trump Administration's immigration policies?

[Badger]

Badger...

Not everything is about Trump!

Please read this post of mine again that you criticized and tell me exactly what is inaccurate based on that article.

The American taxpayers can take the financial hit, sure.  But they haven't, because DC is dysfunctional and delinquent on this issue, has been for years, when it comes to providing the resources necessary for the number of asylum seekers that increase year after year. Refugees are staying in facilities that were never meant to hold people overnight, because that's what's available. The Trump administration owns the lion share of the blame for the current situation, but Congress and the Obama administration are not blameless either.

There have never been this many asylum seekers at the border before. The past several months have been unprecedented. Don't blame Barack Obama for failing to predict the future and building a bunch of dormitories in 2014 for people who would come here in 2018.

Why didn't the Republicans appropriate more money during the TWO YEARS that they controlled all branches of government?

Trump's actions - his refusal to provide assistance to Central American countries, his irrational fixation on a physical border wall - are what have made this problem as acutely bad as it is right now.

And again, Trump has been VERY explicit and vocal about it; he WANTS tbe suffering publicized as a deterrant to other asylum seekers (from rapist infested s#!thole countries only, of course.