Opinion of Arab Spring?

[All Along The Watchtower]

The idea that democracy is a great idea for some countries or cultures but not for others is fundamentally incoherent and abhorrent, and can only come from a place of elitism and racism.

[All Along The Watchtower]

The idea that democracy is a great idea for some countries or cultures but not for others is fundamentally incoherent and abhorrent, and can only come from a place of elitism and racism.

No this is wrong . Democracy can only work in a culture that values individual rights , otherwise democracy simply cannot work .

A culture can never change or be changed, of course.

Anyway, your point about the importance of valuing individual rights to democracy is accurate if you’re talking about liberal democracy, but worldwide, liberalism is not synonymous with democracy (though it is in the “West”).

[All Along The Watchtower]

Imagine if it had succeeded in overthrowing Jordan and the Gulf monarchies

The US was never going to let that happen, but we do still support democracy in the Middle East, or rather, The Only Democracy In The Middle East (TM).

[All Along The Watchtower]

No this is wrong . Democracy can only work in a culture that values individual rights , otherwise democracy simply cannot work .

So would you agree with the idea that America was not a democracy until the 1960s?

Yes The South wasn’t really a democracy till the 1960s and I have said before I think reconstruction was ended too early .

Though I would like to point out that Jim Crow was implemented through a democracy which is exactly why democracy cannot be placed over individual rights when those two conflict

Violence, intimidation, and other forms of voter suppression + Supreme Court rulings =/ democracy.

[All Along The Watchtower]

A major problem for post-Soviet Russia, besides the trauma of the collapse itself, was the introduction of turbo-capitalism without the rule of law. The rise of oligarchs and organized crime networks in that context—at the expense of the vast majority of Russians—isn’t surprising, nor is Russia’s turn to a veteran of the Soviet security state as authoritarian leader by the new century.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Absolutely horrible movement aided and abetted by Obama (and created ISIS).

Huh?

[All Along The Watchtower]

Absolutely horrible movement aided and abetted by Obama (and created ISIS).

Huh?

The claim that the Arab Spring was aided and abetted by Obama is mostly a Russian propaganda narrative. In fact, the first two leaders overthrown in the Arab Spring were US allies (Ben Ali and Mubarak) who Obama was careful to avoid criticizing/opposing. The anti-government militias in Syria were backed by Turkey & did not receive any support from the US until several years into the Syrian Civil War.

The Libyan protests were inspired by the Tunisian and Egyptian protests, but it is true that NATO intervening did not make things better.

ISIS existed long before the Arab Spring - just under a different name. It was mainly present in Iraq, which was not affected by the Arab Spring.

All true, though I suspect that the hostility to the Arab Spring in the West has less to do with Russian propaganda and more to do with citizens of Arab countries who overthrew their dictators voting for the “wrong” people (so-called Islamists). Because if there’s one thing ISIS and Al-Qaeda are known for, it’s their support for democracy and elections.

And denying people political representation and basic rights by supporting repressive dictatorships is a great way to counter the appeal of terrorist organizations—definitely something that has never blown back on Western countries that support said dictatorships. 👍

[All Along The Watchtower]

I mean, other than in Tunisia, they either did elect Islamists or Islamist militias took over

What does the former have to do with the latter?

Mohammed Morsi in Egypt wasn't a liberal democrat - he was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood.

And?

Islamists took over vast regions of Syria as well.

Again, what does that have to do with democracy and elections?

[All Along The Watchtower]

Mohammed Morsi in Egypt wasn't a liberal democrat - he was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood.

And?

Hmm, ok. I certainly hope your reaction will be the same if Trump gets elected in November.

Well if that happens I don’t think the solution would be a military coup and the installation of a far more brutal regime.