Opinion of Arab Spring?

[TheReckoning]

Good intentions, but overall, Massive HP. Has led to more human suffering in the world than any geopolitical development of the 21st century, including Russia-Ukraine.

[nicholas.slaydon]

An inspiring movement that failed to pan out in the end.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

1848 in practice let to a lot of turmoil, bloodshed and failed regimes in the short term, but I think it's fair to be inspired by the idealism.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

In the long run it made things worse.

[KaiserDave]

Too early to say.

[Upper Canada Tory]

In my view, Western liberal democrats put far too much hope and enthusiasm in the Arab Spring's ability to reform the Middle East. The people who protested against Arab League dictators at the time came from a variety of ideological movements - some were genuine liberal democrats, others were radical Islamist ideologues. The naively optimistic idea that MENA countries were going to turn into democracies nearly overnight was questionable at best and even if they were, it's even more questionable that they were going to last long-term (eg, Tunisia). The more extremist factions in MENA were suppressed by the existing dictators of the time and no one could have guaranteed they wouldn't have taken power as soon as they had the opportunity.

In general, the Middle East is somewhat overrated in terms of geopolitical importance and the instability brought by the Arab Spring certainly did not help the situation. Helping the MENA countries reform themselves into democracies is going to take time, energy and resources that the West is not willing to expend on the matter, nor is it in the West's geopolitical interest to do so. It's better to strengthen existing alliances in the Middle East while also voicing human rights concerns when they come up. Maybe democracy will reach the Middle East one day, but it has to occur from within.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Just because it failed (for now) it doesn't mean that it wasn't a worthwhile effort in the right direction.

Some countries' or regions' histories don't follow the relatively linear path of the U.S. or the U.K. - Sometimes it is a messy, bloody, long-winded struggle towards a better future with many setbacks in between. See France post-1789... or Germany 1848-1990. I see the Arab Spring as a first step, one that can be built upon despite everything. Considering that the root causes of the first Arab Spring have neither been adressed nor eliminited there's a fair chance that there could be a second, or third, one eventually.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

HP in the short-term. But fundamentally, "too early to say" is accurate in the long-term.

[Mr. Smith]

Freedom Launch, Horrible Landing.

It's a wash, excepting maybe in Tunisia.

[CumbrianLefty]

As already said, the 1848 wave of European uprisings were almost all failures in the short term.

In other words, far too early to say.

[All Along The Watchtower]

The idea that democracy is a great idea for some countries or cultures but not for others is fundamentally incoherent and abhorrent, and can only come from a place of elitism and racism.

[TheReckoning]

Saying that you have to have to support the Arab Spring because it’s “ideals” were good is like saying that you have to support China’s Great Leap Forward because it had good “ideals.”

[OSR stands with Israel]

The idea that democracy is a great idea for some countries or cultures but not for others is fundamentally incoherent and abhorrent, and can only come from a place of elitism and racism.

No this is wrong . Democracy can only work in a culture that values individual rights , otherwise democracy simply cannot work .

[President Johnson]

An inspiring movement that failed to pan out in the end.

That pretty much nails it.

[HisGrace]

The idea that democracy is a great idea for some countries or cultures but not for others is fundamentally incoherent and abhorrent, and can only come from a place of elitism and racism.

No this is wrong . Democracy can only work in a culture that values individual rights , otherwise democracy simply cannot work .

There's some things that shouldn't be on the ballot. Most people in a country wanting it is not a good reason to put all the infidels in jail, ban women from working or school, or kill gay people.

[Dr. MB]

Imagine if it had succeeded in overthrowing Jordan and the Gulf monarchies

[Antonio the Sixth]

Obvious Freedom Movement, literally and figuratively.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Saying that you have to have to support the Arab Spring because it’s “ideals” were good is like saying that you have to support China’s Great Leap Forward because it had good “ideals.”

No, as China's great leap forward had stupid ideals

[Samof94]

The idea that democracy is a great idea for some countries or cultures but not for others is fundamentally incoherent and abhorrent, and can only come from a place of elitism and racism.

That's exactly how China justifies its rule. It tries to sell the idea that certain cultures aren't suitable for democracy and that strongman rule is inherently natural(and said strongman can choose their system of government).

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

The idea that democracy is a great idea for some countries or cultures but not for others is fundamentally incoherent and abhorrent, and can only come from a place of elitism and racism.

That's exactly how China justifies its rule. It tries to sell the idea that certain cultures aren't suitable for democracy and that strongman rule is inherently natural(and said strongman can choose their system of government).

Countries without a history of liberal democracy will never succeed unless the movement for democracy is both organic and comes from a place of national unity. China, Russia, and Saudi Arabia, to name a few examples, are not countries that have much if any experience with liberal democracy. And the more Westerners promote democracy in foreign policy, the more anti-Western resentment will be incurred. Pointing out that fact is neither elitist nor racist, but supporting a one-size-fits-all model for world governments is both naive and dismissive of how cultures actually work.

[TheReckoning]

Saying that you have to have to support the Arab Spring because it’s “ideals” were good is like saying that you have to support China’s Great Leap Forward because it had good “ideals.”

No, as China's great leap forward had stupid ideals

Economic development by industrialization is a stupid ideal?

[All Along The Watchtower]

The idea that democracy is a great idea for some countries or cultures but not for others is fundamentally incoherent and abhorrent, and can only come from a place of elitism and racism.

No this is wrong . Democracy can only work in a culture that values individual rights , otherwise democracy simply cannot work .

A culture can never change or be changed, of course.

Anyway, your point about the importance of valuing individual rights to democracy is accurate if you’re talking about liberal democracy, but worldwide, liberalism is not synonymous with democracy (though it is in the “West”).

[All Along The Watchtower]

Imagine if it had succeeded in overthrowing Jordan and the Gulf monarchies

The US was never going to let that happen, but we do still support democracy in the Middle East, or rather, The Only Democracy In The Middle East (TM).

[OSR stands with Israel]

The idea that democracy is a great idea for some countries or cultures but not for others is fundamentally incoherent and abhorrent, and can only come from a place of elitism and racism.

No this is wrong . Democracy can only work in a culture that values individual rights , otherwise democracy simply cannot work .

A culture can never change or be changed, of course.

Anyway, your point about the importance of valuing individual rights to democracy is accurate if you’re talking about liberal democracy, but worldwide, liberalism is not synonymous with democracy (though it is in the “West”).

Individual rights are more important than democracy and sometimes a democratic system can lead to more rights taken away than a non democratic system .

[Ferguson97]

No this is wrong . Democracy can only work in a culture that values individual rights , otherwise democracy simply cannot work .

So would you agree with the idea that America was not a democracy until the 1960s?