France General Discussion II: Living under Marxism

[Antonio the Sixth]

That's it, the right has officially crossed the line.

Nuke this country.

[Antonio the Sixth]

A figure of the right just said France is a country of the "White race". Yes, for real.

[Antonio the Sixth]

And when you say "right" you mean FN, right? This isn't the Republicans ... Is it? :0

It is.


(I refuse to use the term "Republican" to describe them because it's particularly ridiculous in the French context)

[Antonio the Sixth]

Well, one FN supporter said something strange and stupid. Wooptydoo.

Could you at least look at the post literally above yours before posting nonsense?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Could you at least look at the post literally above yours before posting nonsense?

You're posting nonsense all the time, so I don't see a particular reason to change my posting behaviour. If you don't like my contributions, please by all means put me on ignore. And let's get back on topic.

This has nothing to do with liking or not liking your "contribution". You posted factually wrong information while the corrected facts are immediately available to you. You could at least have the decency to acknowledge it and apologize.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Curious what French posters think about this long American Interest article on the Right's history.

It's not too bad a summary, but very simplistic in several ways.

First of all, it's very debatable to say that France is "culturally left-wing" (although I understand why it could seem so to an American public). Politically, the Republican and Radical left enjoyed dominance from 1876 to 1919, but it had stopped being "left-wing" by the first decade of the 20th Century already. Interwar political life saw radicalization on both sides, but no real prevailing side (even the famous "Popular Front" only lasted for a year and half). The 4th Republic saw wild swings in both directions and, as the article notes, the right governed undisturbed for 23 years at the beginning of the 5th Republic (which, by the way, has still not lasted as long as the 3rd one). Intellectually, it's more debatable - of course, like in other European countries, communism dominated academia in the postwar years - but not nearly as clear-cut as the article makes it out to be.

To me, the key characteristic of French politics since roughly the mid-1970s has been conservatism - in the literal sense of the world. Political discourse is very much oriented toward the past and the need to "preserve" things that made France great in the good old days. This, to me, is the reason was France was relatively hostile ground for neoliberalism: the left was able to frame the issue of the Welfare State as a heritage that needed to be preserved from the assault of the radical right. Chirac led a very right-wing (and openly inspired by the Thatcher example) government in 1986-1988. This allowed Mitterrand to present himself as a reasonable elder statesman promising not to upset the existing balance in either direction, allowing him to crush Chirac in the 1988 election. Jospin's 1997 victory wasn't so different, as it built a lot on protest against now-President Chirac's economic reforms. French people generally fear change and want things to stay as they were back when (they believe) everything was going well.

Still, eventually neoliberalism more or less got its way during the 2002-2012 era of right-wing dominance (especially Sarkozy's presidency). And Hollande, since 2012, is largely continuing the same supply-side and anti-welfare policies (while left-wingers enacting right-wing policies is nothing new in many countries, the French left had until now largely resisted 'third-wavization', so this is a significant change in course). This means that France's fear of change and urge to preserve is increasingly focusing on issues of immigration and globalization. Both the right and left played their part in heightening these issues, but the key turning point to me is Sarkozy's 2010 speech in Grenoble. After this point, he fully embraced the FN's rhetoric on immigration, Islam and crime, and his policies toward the end of his term already bordered on State xenophobia (for example, there was a ministerial decree directing businesses to hire French workers over foreigners with the same competences). Talking about the "White race" is only the logical conclusion of this drift, which is encouraged by the fact that the right and FN are united in opposition against Hollande. Honestly, I see little to no difference between them on immigration issues at this point (though there are still huge differences in European and economic policy).

[Antonio the Sixth]

The French Greens' ability to self-destruct has always amazed me.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The French Greens' ability to self-destruct has always amazed me.

It's amazing, right? They've basically single-handedly fucked up all the chances that voters have given them (and there have been more than a few) to become a consistently strong and relevant party - it's quite a feat. As far as I'm concerned it's something of a pity, because they're the only party which isn't completely awful.

Why is there this different to fx nearby German speaking countries on this? It seems the French Greens are the most malfunctioning in Western Europe.

Yeah, it's telling that the only EELV politician with an actual vision for the party as a political force with a project was actually German...

[Antonio the Sixth]

Having been to my school cafeteria a couple time these meals look way too good to be true. Unless the school is in a very privileged area.

[Antonio the Sixth]

[Antonio the Sixth]

How is his daughter going to react?

They already hate each other, and Panzerdaddy has gone out of his way to piss off his daughter, so that's not surprising.

[Antonio the Sixth]

So yeah, they arrested one of the main people behind the November attacks. Good.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Moderate hero flamby doesn't want to revoke citizenship from terrorist suspects anymore... sounds like the deportation of that school girl all over again.

Thank God he abandoned that monstrosity.

Still, the fact that he even had the gall to bring it up made me lose any remnant of respect I had for him.

[Antonio the Sixth]

80% of voters don't want Flamby to run again, including a majority of Socialists. For some reason French presidents can never leave office voluntarily with a good approval rating...

The depressing thing is that people seem to want that piece of sh*t Valls to run instead.

[Antonio the Sixth]

80% of voters don't want Flamby to run again, including a majority of Socialists. For some reason French presidents can never leave office voluntarily with a good approval rating...

The depressing thing is that people seem to want that piece of sh*t Valls to run instead.

Valls would win vs Sarkozy in a run-off.

And what great triumph it would be, since Valls is barely to the left of Sarkozy on any given issue.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Apparently there were talks of banning Muslim headscarves in friggin' Universities recently, but thankfully the government shut that down.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Just fyi, I have officially lost any respect I still had for the PS (and yes, before that last bill I still did have some).

[Antonio the Sixth]

Sarko's officially in.

Jail?

If only... *sigh*

[Antonio the Sixth]

So I am assuming (or hoping) that Juppé will defeat Sarkozy in the primary. Would that be somewhat correct assumption?

Juppé is leading right now, but he's nowhere near safe.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Good news, for a change! Hollande comes out against TTIP.

That's the best thing he's done in months if not years.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Also, Macron resigned from Economy Minister. It seems the media buzz about how his potential presidential bid would be so cool, modern and refreshing, got to his head and he started believing it. Good. His fall is only going to be more entertaining.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yeah, that's gonna be fun.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Is there any chance that neither Hollande or the LR candidate make it to the runoff, and that the French Presidential election is between Le Pen and Melenchon (kind of like the 2016 Austrian Presidential runoff), and if so, what would the runoff results between the two be?

The chances 0%. Mélenchon has never managed to pick up steam, and at this rate he'll probably do worse than his 2012 performance. At best he'll have a new surge and end up around 15% if the PS candidate collapse, but that's highly unlikely.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Is there any chance that neither Hollande or the LR candidate make it to the runoff, and that the French Presidential election is between Le Pen and Melenchon (kind of like the 2016 Austrian Presidential runoff), and if so, what would the runoff results between the two be?

The chances 0%. Mélenchon has never managed to pick up steam, and at this rate he'll probably do worse than his 2012 performance. At best he'll have a new surge and end up around 15% if the PS candidate collapse, but that's highly unlikely.

Ah, appreciate the response. Do you think FDG would benefit from having a different candidate, or is Melenchon the best they can do?

Mélenchon is definitely the best they can do. Remember that the last PCF candidate before Mélenchon came in (and for all intents and purposes, FG = PCF + Mélenchon) polled below 2%.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Is there any chance that neither Hollande or the LR candidate make it to the runoff, and that the French Presidential election is between Le Pen and Melenchon (kind of like the 2016 Austrian Presidential runoff), and if so, what would the runoff results between the two be?

The chances 0%. Mélenchon has never managed to pick up steam, and at this rate he'll probably do worse than his 2012 performance. At best he'll have a new surge and end up around 15% if the PS candidate collapse, but that's highly unlikely.

Ah, appreciate the response. Do you think FDG would benefit from having a different candidate, or is Melenchon the best they can do?

Mélenchon is definitely the best they can do. Remember that the last PCF candidate before Mélenchon came in (and for all intents and purposes, FG = PCF + Mélenchon) polled below 2%.

I see in the 2007 presidential election something called Ligue communiste révolutionnaire got nearly 5%, well ahead of the PCF candidate. Would they not be part of FG?

Hahahahaha, no.

LCR (which has since renamed itself NPA) is a Trotskyist outfit, and as such they loathe the PCF more than the plague. It ran a candidate in 2012, who got 1%.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Is there any chance that neither Hollande or the LR candidate make it to the runoff, and that the French Presidential election is between Le Pen and Melenchon (kind of like the 2016 Austrian Presidential runoff), and if so, what would the runoff results between the two be?

The chances 0%. Mélenchon has never managed to pick up steam, and at this rate he'll probably do worse than his 2012 performance. At best he'll have a new surge and end up around 15% if the PS candidate collapse, but that's highly unlikely.

Ah, appreciate the response. Do you think FDG would benefit from having a different candidate, or is Melenchon the best they can do?

Mélenchon is definitely the best they can do. Remember that the last PCF candidate before Mélenchon came in (and for all intents and purposes, FG = PCF + Mélenchon) polled below 2%.

I see in the 2007 presidential election something called Ligue communiste révolutionnaire got nearly 5%, well ahead of the PCF candidate. Would they not be part of FG?

Hahahahaha, no.

LCR (which has since renamed itself NPA) is a Trotskyist outfit, and as such they loathe the PCF more than the plague. It ran a candidate in 2012, who got 1%.

Oh ok. Why'd they do so well in 2002 and 2007?

They had a young, charismatic and telegenic candidate. When said candidate made good on his pledge to only run twice, his successor didn't live up to him, and the "charismatic telegenic leftist" banner was passed along to Mélenchon.