Oslo Bombing and Utøya Shootings

[Antonio the Sixth]

OMG, that's awful...

[Antonio the Sixth]

Even a mass shooting now... What a horrible event... I hope its authors will get caught soon.

[Antonio the Sixth]

91 people... That's really horrible.

Hi, ive been roaming these forums for some time now, but i feel this is the time to write a post about these horrendous attacks.

Im active on the far left and know people in the youth wing of LO(The largest labour union in norway), one of whom saw and was shot at by the killer, but nobody i know directly have been injured.

This day has been a major shock for all us Norwegians, hitting right at the heart of our Democratic institutions at the governmental headquarters, and the tragedy at the Labour Youth camp where atleast 10 people have been killed.

Ive been on 2 summer camps on utøya and was planning to go this year as well, but now it has been cancelled.

If anyone have questions, just post them here, it's getting late here in Norway, so i'll answer them tomorrow or later depending on the circumstances.

You have all our solidarity, Olenik. Welcome to the forum, BTW.

[Antonio the Sixth]

My thoughts are with the Norwegian people today.  I hope for justice and I mourn the dead.

It's hard to say something that isn't trite and inane, but I do feel for the people of Norway.  I just wish there was a way to do so that wasn't cliched and trite.

Yeah, Scandinavian society is probably the closest human beings have come to creating a utopia. It's shocking that something of this magnitude could happen there.

That was my thought as well. The more I learn about this story, the more it shocks me and I find it uncomprehensible.

[Antonio the Sixth]

A truly horrible and disturbing act. RIP to the victims, and my condolences go out to the victims' families and the people of Norway. I was reading through the thread, and noticed some posters mentioning that Norway does not have life imprisonment or the death penalty. Is there anyway Parliament or the Prime Minister could reinstate it before the perpetrator goes on trial? It doesn't seem just considering the heinous nature of this crime that Breivik should be able to get out of prison in 20 years.

I know what I say may sound particularly cynical and disheartening, but if he actually is a psycopath maybe what he actually needs is an adequate treatment, or at least an internment in an appropriate institution. I'm not arguing about his moral responsibility (which is entire) or making a judgement on the person (who is, in any case, a horrendous piece of trash who belongs in hell).

[Antonio the Sixth]

So Im thumbing through this 1,500 page compendium/manifesto and wow.  Around 800 pages is your standard white nationalist fare.  But the real scary part are the several hundreds of pages of planning and logistics.  There are chapters on planning, funding, how to maintain a cover and a cell, acquiring arms and WMD- i.e nukes, anthrax etc. The thrust is that they have re-founded some Knight Templar group and have issued a pre-emptive declaration of war on their enemies.  There are extensive rationalizations for their attacks.

Chapter 3.22 is entitled: Using terror as a method for waking up the masses – many of our people will hate us for it

Chapter 3.23 is: The cruel nature of our operations

"As a Justiciar Knight you are operating as a jury, judge and executioner on behalf of all free Europeans. Never forget that it is not only your right to act against the tyranny of the cultural Marxist/multiculturalist elites of Europe, it is your duty to do so.

There are situations in which cruelty is necessary, and refusing to apply necessary cruelty is a betrayal of the people whom you wish to protect.


The preferred method is to attack in a violent and deceptive form (shock attack), usually with limited forces (1-2 individuals).


Once you decide to strike, it is better to kill too many than not enough, or you risk reducing the desired ideological impact of the strike. Explain what you have done (in an announcement distributed prior to operation) and make certain that everyone understands that we, the free peoples of Europe, are going to strike again and again. Do not apologise, make excuses or express regret for you are acting in self-defence or in a preemptive manner. In many ways, morality has lost its meaning in our struggle. The question of good and evil is reduced to one simple choice. For every free patriotic European, only one choice remains: Survive or perish. Some innocent will die in our operations as they are simply at the wrong place at the wrong time. Get used the idea. The needs of the many will always surpass the needs of the few."

Reading this makes me sick.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Here is a timeline the police has published regarding the shooting:

17:27 the shooting is reported to the police
17:30 operative central in Oslo receives the report
17:38 the Oslo district receives coordination info from the local police
17:52 the first police squad arrives at the shore, but has to wait for a boat
18:03 a boat is reported to be on its way
18:09 SWAT team arrives on the shore
18:25 SWAT team arrives on the island
18:27: perpetrator taken into custody

Taken together, it doesn't really seem that bad a response time - it took an hour from the report to getting him and that was because it was on an island (in a lake at that, IIRC - that probably made the available number of boats a lot lower)

33 f**king minutes to reach the damn island... I don't want to accuse anyone, but it's clear there's something wrong there.

[Antonio the Sixth]

You know what, Al? If you had any solidarity with the Norweigan people, you would not change your signature to the Arbeiterpartei rose. This was an attack of Norway and on civilised values, not an Arbeiterpartei rally.

Wow. This is one of the most disgusting posts I've seen in a very long time.

Pretty much, yeah.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Here is a timeline the police has published regarding the shooting:

17:27 the shooting is reported to the police
17:30 operative central in Oslo receives the report
17:38 the Oslo district receives coordination info from the local police
17:52 the first police squad arrives at the shore, but has to wait for a boat
18:03 a boat is reported to be on its way
18:09 SWAT team arrives on the shore
18:25 SWAT team arrives on the island
18:27: perpetrator taken into custody

Taken together, it doesn't really seem that bad a response time - it took an hour from the report to getting him and that was because it was on an island (in a lake at that, IIRC - that probably made the available number of boats a lot lower)

33 f**king minutes to reach the damn island... I don't want to accuse anyone, but it's clear there's something wrong there.

the problem is that in Italy, France, Germany, UK, USA it would be unthinkable that in a rally of the main governing party with 100+ people including prime minister's sons there wouldn't be at least a dozen of armed policemen patrolling everywhere. Beside secret service probably.

Definitely, yes. As much as I love scandinavian societies and the mindsets that inspired them, it is undeniable that some more prudence was necessary.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Finally a piece of not-so-bad (I refuse to use the word "good") news in the Breivik-case:

The Norwegian police have adjusted the number of deaths on Utøya down from 86 to 68. On the other hand, another victim of the Oslo bomb has died, so the total death toll is now officially 76.

That's still 76 too much, of course.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yeah, I doubt this tragedy will really have any long-term (maybe even short-term) impact on the far right's strength in Europe.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The Fp will probably suffer in the next cycle, maybe falling at 10% or 15%, but it will most likely recover after a few years and most people won't hold it responsible for the shootings.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I've heard the Norwegian justice is considering to pursue him for crimes against Humanity, which would mean a maximum 30 years sentence. I hope they will go on.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I know it's wrong to even remember that this man exists, but... well... Glenn Beck may actually have sunk to new depths in his quest for publicity.

At least I hope this has caused a massive outrage in the American medias. Otherwise, if he can say such things and be "alright", then that country is even worse off than I thought.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Some local SD-politician also said something about how mass immigration explained this and that it wouldn't have happened in a Norwegian Norway. The party leadership immediately distanced themselves - they're screwed enough by this as it is.

Some FN guy here in France has called Breivik a "resistent", and was suspended from the party, too.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Some local SD-politician also said something about how mass immigration explained this and that it wouldn't have happened in a Norwegian Norway. The party leadership immediately distanced themselves - they're screwed enough by this as it is.

Some FN guy here in France has called Breivik a "resistent", and was suspended from the party, too.

Well, that sounds decidedly worse.

That's the difference between modern, "trendy" far-right parties à la SD, and reactionary crypto-fascist bunches like the FN.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The reactionary right always finds a way to spin this kind of events. After all, fear and hatred (legitimate feelings in this situation) have always been its best electoral arguments.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Not surprising.


The really sad thing is that all this load of sh*t won't stop the rise of the Lega, of the FN or of other parties. It won't even stop "respectable" right-wing parties from allying with them.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Not surprising.


The really sad thing is that all this load of sh*t won't stop the rise of the Lega, of the FN or of other parties. It won't even stop "respectable" right-wing parties from allying with them.

These events tend not to stall ideology. The prolonged actions of the Red Army Faction didn't have much of an effect on Marxists or Trotskyists. ETA's actions didn't stop people believing in Basque Independence etc.

It is not ideology itself which poses problem, but rather its implication : scapegoating of immigrants and people who support them, developping a complex of besieged fortress, and assimilating difference with a threat. This kind of rhetoric is naturally tied to the use of violence, just like a certain kind of Marxist rhetoric (not the Marxist ideology itself) was.