Lyndon Johnson vs. Barry Goldwater

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Goldwater.

LBJ was, by far, one of the worst Presidents the last century has brought us--in both foreign policy and domestic policy.


At least Warren G. Harding died...

I agree. He should have been impeached for high crimes.

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I read once that Johnson behaved like a jerk during his visit in Finland, but I have to vote for him. Goldwater's attitude towards blacks' civil rights was from the 19th century.

Actually Goldwater was pretty progressive when it came to the issue of Civil Rights. He's really been painted badly by the majority of revisionist historians. They also claim LBJ was some great standard bearer for equal rights when actually he was one of the most bigoted politicians of the time.

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it's true, Goldwater was one of the most socially liberal politicians of his time. His opposition to the Civil Rights had nothing to do with racism. And he also had very progressive positions on womens' rights and gay rights, he generally just didn't think the federal government should've enforced them. I can respect the guy, and let's not forget this quote: "Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's ass!"

Didn't a homosexual work in his business or something?

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Hindsight only clears half the picture, because we still don't know what would have happned if Goldwater would have won.  Using hindsight, Johnson's civil rights record at least balances if not overcomes Vietnam.  Goldwater was scary, even without the exaggerations of the LBJ campaign.  With or without hindsight I have to go with the Democrat here.  LBJ.

What does 1968 look like if Goldwater is president?  The Republicans would almost certainly go with Goldwater.  Incumbants always get the nomination if they seek it, at least since the 19th century.  Teddy Roosevelt tried to take it from Taft; Ted Kennedy tried to take it from Carter.  Both failed.  The Democratic nomination would be wide open without a VP Humphrey. 

LBJ was a co-conspirator. He took down a sitting president to attain power. I'd vote for almost anyone over him.

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Have to say that JFK died at the hands of a lone nut... that what really gets everyone that such a nobody could kill a such an important and substancial person... that said LBJ was scared silly that Castro had killed Kennedy and so rushed the inquest.... well that my opinion. 

What about JFKs links to fighting the mafia and heroine trade? He was warned not to stop heroine from being imported by the mob. Their is a lawyer down here in Tampa who discussed this with me. He was around at the time and defended one of the lower level thugs in the mafia from Chicago.

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Have to say that JFK died at the hands of a lone nut... that what really gets everyone that such a nobody could kill a such an important and substancial person... that said LBJ was scared silly that Castro had killed Kennedy and so rushed the inquest.... well that my opinion. 

What about JFKs links to fighting the mafia and heroine trade? He was warned not to stop heroine from being imported by the mob. Their is a lawyer down here in Tampa who discussed this with me. He was around at the time and defended one of the lower level thugs in the mafia from Chicago.

I still don't think there was a conspiracy as such, are you arguing that perhaps Kennedy assassination was a Mafia Hit? perhaps but i just don't buy it, Oswald had no links to the Mafia from what i remember so i find it hard to believe he was working on their behalf, instead Oswald was clearly looking to “make difference” he’d already tried to shoot a prominent segregationist and I’d argue that he then settled on trying to kill Kennedy and sadly he succeeded... but that’s just my take on it.

Ok, so why would Ruby shoot him? Ruby had KNOWN links to the mafia.

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Hindsight only clears half the picture, because we still don't know what would have happned if Goldwater would have won.  Using hindsight, Johnson's civil rights record at least balances if not overcomes Vietnam.  Goldwater was scary, even without the exaggerations of the LBJ campaign.  With or without hindsight I have to go with the Democrat here.  LBJ.

What does 1968 look like if Goldwater is president?  The Republicans would almost certainly go with Goldwater.  Incumbants always get the nomination if they seek it, at least since the 19th century.  Teddy Roosevelt tried to take it from Taft; Ted Kennedy tried to take it from Carter.  Both failed.  The Democratic nomination would be wide open without a VP Humphrey. 

LBJ was a co-conspirator. He took down a sitting president to attain power. I'd vote for almost anyone over him.

Ultimate irony: people who attack historians for being revisionist in respect of LBJ, then in the next post claim he plotted to kill Kennedy.

I can't say for sure whether he planned it or even plotted it. But I do know however he DID know it was going to happen. Even Nixon referred to the JFK murder in the tapes, "The Bay of Pigs thing" "we don't want that found out".

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So you think Nixon also knew it was going to happen?

I don't know.

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What makes it more complicated, and more interesting, is that there are so many conspiracy theories, many which contradict each other and cannot all be true, and new evidence keeps turning up.  Ruby's claim that he killed Oswald to spare Jackie the pain of a trial is a crock, and much of the Warren report is too.  Beyond that you have to deal with too many crooks to get much useful information. 

I could agree with the single shooter theory. But I believe its all thrown out the window with Ruby. It would make no sense why he would shoot him. All that is known is that Ruby was working for the mob and was already terminally ill with cancer.

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Why is Goldwater called AuH20?

Ever taken a science course? Au = Gold H2O = Water

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"LBJ, LBJ, how many kids did you kill today?"

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"LBJ, LBJ, how many kids did you kill today?"

One time Johnson was trying to sleep and he heard those hippies chanting this quite loudly. He wanted to sleep and he yelled out the window, "If I said a killed a million would you shut up?"

Yeah, that is a funny story. Unfortunately if it was 1964, I would have voted for Johnson, and still would. Goldwater was a very scary person back then. Later, he became more tolerable, but I wouldn't have voted against civil rights in any case, and his economic policies wouldn't have worked either. Also, his movement did more harm to the Republican cause than any Republican could have done. If he hadn't been nominated, the Democrats would have had smaller majorities in Congress and Johnson might not have been able to push through all the welfare programs of the late sixties which hurt our economy.

W/Out hindsight I hope. LBJ was a terrible racist and definately knew who killed JFK or ordered it himself. LBJ was one of the main reasons for Vietnam but people just like to fluff up his 'great' record by only mentioning the 'Civil Rights' Act of '64 and the Great Society aka the New Steal Deal II.