Atlasia-Turkey Free Trade Bill (Law'd)

[Purple State]

Turkey has undergone major advances in the move towards Islamic secularization. I support improving trade relations with them.

[Purple State]

The Turkish definition of secularization is suppression of religion.

Better than the Saudi definition.

Not that this is justification for free trade. But opening up relations with Turkey will help bring it out of the grips of extremism and help further modernize the nation.

[Purple State]

The Turkish definition of secularization is suppression of religion.

Better than the Saudi definition.

Is that what we're comparing it to?

You noticed there were other letters, most of which formed words in coherent sentences, that followed that sentence. I made it clear that the line you quoted was not a reason on its own.

[Purple State]

The Turkish definition of secularization is suppression of religion.

Better than the Saudi definition.

Is that what we're comparing it to?

You noticed there were other letters, most of which formed words in coherent sentences, that followed that sentence. I made it clear that the line you quoted was not a reason on its own.

Nevertheless, my point stands.

Then to answer you, no that is not what we are comparing it to. Turkey is making a full faith attempt to modernize and join the international community. The best to way to ensure that secular forces overcome the challenge of religious extremism is through globalization and breaking down barriers, not building them up.

[Purple State]

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1. Have you undergone some sort of personality transplant lately? You seem like an honorary member of the Regional Protection Party. Genuinely curious here.

2. This is the exact same response you and I got from the Right when we supported banning trade with nations that criminalize homosexuality. Where was this attitude then?

My views are nuanced so I'll outline them quickly:

I am more often than not supportive of free trade (as my record and all of my public statements indicate, so this is nothing new). I will sometimes resist free trade with unacceptably belligerent nations (like Iran). I also do not mind some restrictions added on to FTAs (such as decriminalization of homosexuality, but not labor standards).

Does that clear it up?

[Purple State]

I just pose one question to the Senators in support of this bill:

What, in your opinion, are free trade agreements for and what should they accomplish?

Off the cuff...

Primary purpose: Maximize the economic capacity of the economies involved by increasing specialization and efficiency in the market.

Secondary purpose: Utilizing the full extent of the global commons, sharing skills, culture, etc.

Tertiary purpose: Use in combination with smart power policies to pressure nations to acquiesce to our demands.

[Purple State]

Marokai, you explained your opposition to free trade in general to me, in a very lengthy and eloquently written PM just before I was elected.  I sympathise with many of the points you made to me; however, if you want to convince me to vote against this, you will need to explain specifically how it applies to Turkey.  I will tend to favor free trade agreements, unless there is good reason not to.

Ah.

Well, my only problem with Turkey is that they're not exactly a free or liberal society, and it has a tendency to censor, or crack down on undesirable organizations (Like gay rights groups, even though homosexuality is not illegal there). As someone said, just because it's not a theocracy doesn't mean that it's a free and fair state, it just leads to suppression of undesirable groups.

It's not a very stable place, with alot more infighting recently over the place of Islam in the government. And low, almost non-existant levels, of unionization make me worry that we would be sending the wrong message to simply pass a free trade agreement unfettered. The US developed mostly on our own, and because of that we realized the problems in our workplaces, we worked to remedy those problems, unions grew to combat the unfairness in the workplace, regulations were laid on businesses to protect and encourage fair labor practices. By sending our businesses (and some of our manufacturing work) elsewhere, we encourage an economy to grow without these protections.

Alot of people say that as their economy grows, they can make regulations of their own and will eventually correct these problems. I see two faults with such a statement. One: They rarely do. Often it leads to no trade at all, or violent demonstrations. Coups, rebellion, nationalization of industry, etc. This is caused by Two: International corporate entities discourage such, and can gain favor with influential figures in American and local politics in the target country. What non-first-world countries have we ever agreed to trade with later abolished child labor? Implemented fair labor practices and enforced them? Can anyone name three? One?

Free trade fosters peace, if countries roll over and accept our economic invasion, if people don't care about the race to the bottom and become our slave labor with a smile on their faces. But once countries want to change or do something that is not in our businesses self-interest, as they inevitably do, you have undesirable and violent movements spark, and this is part of the reason why South American socialism and near-fascism war with each other, and some who react violently to our influence. (When Bolivia tried to privatize their water, for instance, this resulted in what was essentially open rebellion.)

Free trade with developed nations, that's not a problem to me, and that's why the agreement with the European Union is A-OK in my eyes. I trust the European union to trade fairly, and treat it's businesses and workers fairly. I don't trust Turkey, and I certainly don't trust our businesses to treat more fresh meat fairly either. We should encourage proper development in other economies, through such clauses as encouraging regulation, discouraging long hours and child labor, we should explain that there's nothing wrong with unions and protections for workers. Do we want a world with fair, developed economies, or do we want a world where one part of the world is rich and prosperous and developed and free, and the other, impoverished, overworked, sick, and dependent on our corporations for the meager lives they live? We shouldn't pass trade agreement after trade agreement just to give our businesses more feeding ground.

I'm certainly glad I wasted my time writing that.

Well, your argument is certainly very feel good and all, but it has no sound backing in economic theory. Regulations on trade inevitably create inefficiencies in markets, meaning the society is not creating the wealth that it can. Universal free trade, minus some areas that we wish to hurt economically, increases total output, lowers prices, promotes specialization and actually benefits the lowest workers in the end.

[Purple State]

Turkey's record in oppressing journalists and suppressing discussion of their government's role in the Armenian genocide is quite worrying - and this is something that the Senate has criticized them for in the past.  I do wonder whether this would influence their desire to not remove tariffs on us while appreciating that we have removed tariffs on them?  (Given the wording of these bills, there is no guarantee that the other country will necessarily reciprocate the removal of tariffs.)

FTAs are implied agreements. If one party agrees and the other does not, it is null until both parties are in compliance.

[Purple State]

I am going to introduce legislation making all FTAs actual agreements. That fair for everyone?

[Purple State]

I am going to introduce legislation making all FTAs actual agreements. That fair for everyone?

Have all of the countries that we have removed tariffs on indicated a willingness to sign on to free trade agreements?  Some countries, for example, may wish to retain certain tariffs that promote their own economies (the United States, in CAFTA, successfully sought an exemption for its Tennessee whiskey, which apparently can only be produced in Tennessee, and no where else, among the agreeing parties).  The issue of free trade agreements can become extraordinarily complex - part of the reason our legislation is written this way in the first place.

I have posted basic language just to get it in the queue. I would be happy to work with you to make sure that we amply deal with some of the more complex aspects of trade agreements.

[Purple State]

Yea

[Purple State]

Still deliberating.

I ask the President to sign the legislation and give Turkey a chance. No one in the Senate denies that there have been and remain injustices in Turkey; however, this bill is perhaps our best chance to show the rest of the Arab world that there are tangible benefits for modernization and liberalization.

In the event that Turkey regresses into a repressive regime, I would happily support a repeal of this legislation. I simply ask that you give it a chance and see what comes of it.

[Purple State]

Perhaps when I see evidence that free trade actually liberalizes a country and causes them to develop properly with fair and developed-world labor protections, as opposed to either doing nothing to develop or modernize their labor standards or reacting violently to American/Atlasian influence, I'll implore the President to sign such trade agreements.

Given that no one has given me examples, however..

Regardless of the various criticisms one may make, NAFTA has resulted in a better standard of living for many Mexican workers, including higher income for factory workers and the growth of urban centers throughout Mexico.

[Purple State]

No one in the Senate denies that there have been and remain injustices in Turkey; however, this bill is perhaps our best chance to show the rest of the Arab world that there are tangible benefits for modernization and liberalization.

Hmm?

Sorry for the mischaracterization. But Turkey has been very involved in peace talks and other negotiations between Middle Eastern and Central Asian nations, so it would send a better message than, say, Albania which you mentioned elsewhere.

[Purple State]

Heartening.

Thank you Mr. President.