Senate Resolution Calling for a Constitutional Convention (Debate open)

[Purple State]

I'd also like to note an alternative delegate selection criteria that I had thought of:

1. The Convention's membership shall consist of the following:

a. Three members selected from amongst the Senators of Atlasia. The Senate shall conduct an election amongst themselves for these positions, similar to the election of the President Pro-Tempore.

b. Three members selected from amongst the regional officers. The regional officers are defined as the Governors and Lt. Governors of the five regions (or their regional equivalent) and the members of the Mideast Assembly. The regional officers shall conduct an election amongst themselves for these positions, similar to the election of the President Pro-Tempore.

c. One member selected from amongst the judicial officers of Atlasia. The judicial officers are defined as the members of the Supreme Court of Atlasia and the Superior Court Judges. The judicial officers shall conduct an election amongst themselves for these positions, similar to the election of the President Pro-Tempore.

d. The Chairman or each political party consisting of 10 or more members at the start of the Convention.

e. One member elected from each region of Atlasia. These members shall not currently hold any elected office. These members shall be elected two weeks after passage of this Resolution as directed by the Secretary of Forum Affairs. The elections shall be conducted using IRV.

2. No individual shall be allowed to hold two of these positions.

I support this version. It is important to allow for fresh faces to be included as part of the Convention. One of Atlasia's major problems is a general lack of energy and activity and involving the people could spark some renewed interest in the good of the nation.

[Purple State]

Or neither.

No.  The status quo is unacceptable, and everyone would vote for "neither" simply because it's the default.

Why can't both exist? I think the regional level is definitely a fundamental level of Atlasia (and a great place to start climbing the ladder). At the same time, you can't remove the federal level  because it is needed for general law making and as a way to bring laws more generally. It also frees up spots in the regions. I would think there just needs to be some more intermixing between the two levels.

[Purple State]

The only issue is that the regionalists (I'm talking to you RPP) and all those proponents of the federal government will both have to give up on some of their major points. The region cannot have ultimate power over the federal government, but the fed can't be beyond the reach of the regions. There is currently a lot of discussion on this in the DA Convention.

[Purple State]

I was thinking a little about this and how about a Parliamentary system of sorts:

President (popular vote)

Parliament (5 members, all elected by regions)

Premier (Internal leader of Parliament, elected by MPs)

Laws must be passed by Parliament by a majority vote. The Premier can then accept the bill and pass it along to the President or refuse to pass it along. If it is passed to the President, he can accept it into law or veto it. If it is not passed along, the Parliament can overturn it by a two-thirds vote. If it is vetoed by the President, the Parliament can call for a public referendum by a two-thirds vote, requiring all regions to put it up to a vote. It would require a majority vote in a majority of regions. If both the Premier refuses to pass it along, it is overruled, and the President vetoes it, the bill dies automatically.

I'll try to make a diagram to make it clearer:

Bill --> Parl does not pass --> Bill dies

Bill --> Parl passes by majority --> Premier passes --> Pres signs --> Law

Bill --> Parl passes by majority --> Premier blocks --> Parl overrides by two-thirds --> Pres signs --> Law

Bill --> Parl passes by majority --> Premier blocks --> Parl overrides by two-thirds --> Pres vetoes --> Bill dies

Bill --> Parl passes by majority --> Premier passes --> Pres vetoes --> Parl overrides --> Public referendum to the regions, passes with majority vote in majority of regions --> Law


This solves a few problems.

First, the reason federal elections aren't competitive are because there are so many seats and appointed positions. Cut the positions, more competitive.

Second, you involve the regions and the public more in the decision making. MPs are responsible to their regional constituencies and public referendums create more popular participation. At the same time, the President does hold considerable veto power, able to at least force all bills to public referendum.

This probably has something for everyone to hate, but it is a damn good compromise. Any thoughts?

[Purple State]

     I'm fine with that suggestion provided that the President retains all of the powers he has now. Basically, the Premier would be a PPT with veto power.

Essentially, yes. But I have a feeling that would put a great deal more meaning to the decision in picking a PPT. At the moment it is like a giveaway job that people take begrudgingly. This would turn every position into a more meaningful, more contested, and more worthy job.

The President would keep the ability to appoint a Cabinet and all that. There would just be more action before and after a veto, essentially making a more active, exciting, and compromising government.

[Purple State]

I like this idea, so long as you replace "Parliament" with "Senate". I would like to have a Council of Governors in addition, though.

It can be called Senate. I'm not particularly obsessed with the names. However, a CoG I think would only add more roadblocks to any legislation. I think once something has the ability to go to the people through referendum, there is less of a need for a CoG. Plus, the entire Senate/Parliament is regional already. How much regional influence can be needed? You have to give some to gain some.

[Purple State]

I like this idea, so long as you replace "Parliament" with "Senate". I would like to have a Council of Governors in addition, though.

It can be called Senate. I'm not particularly obsessed with the names. However, a CoG I think would only add more roadblocks to any legislation. I think once something has the ability to go to the people through referendum, there is less of a need for a CoG. Plus, the entire Senate/Parliament is regional already. How much regional influence can be needed? You have to give some to gain some.

Well, perhaps we could replace the referendum step with the CoG. I'm just throwing out ideas, though.

Oh come now. An RPP member more concerned with the leaders of the regions than the people of the regions? ;-)

I think a CoG was a good patch for the current mess that Atlasia is in, but in the event that we reform the Constitution completely, the above proposal goes in and actually fixes the problem. I think the balance here is pretty good for federal, regional, and popular powers. Everyone gets a say, everyone has a check.

[Purple State]

I like this idea, so long as you replace "Parliament" with "Senate". I would like to have a Council of Governors in addition, though.

It can be called Senate. I'm not particularly obsessed with the names. However, a CoG I think would only add more roadblocks to any legislation. I think once something has the ability to go to the people through referendum, there is less of a need for a CoG. Plus, the entire Senate/Parliament is regional already. How much regional influence can be needed? You have to give some to gain some.

Well, perhaps we could replace the referendum step with the CoG. I'm just throwing out ideas, though.

Oh come now. An RPP member more concerned with the leaders of the regions than the people of the regions? ;-)

I think a CoG was a good patch for the current mess that Atlasia is in, but in the event that we reform the Constitution completely, the above proposal goes in and actually fixes the problem. I think the balance here is pretty good for federal, regional, and popular powers. Everyone gets a say, everyone has a check.

As I said, I was just putting ideas out there.

Oh, no disrespect. I was just providing my rationale. Keep throwing ideas out there.

When will real action on a Convention take place? Debate has been open for a while and this should get started as soon as possible.

[Purple State]

Is anyone willing to bring my proposal as an Amendment to the floor? I think it will more viable than the Gubernatorial Amendment in the regional vote. I can write it up as legislation and hand it over if someone is willing to sponsor it.

[Purple State]

Warning: This gets long.


Federal Government Restructuring Amendment

1. Article I, Section 1 of the Constitution is amended to read: "The Senate shall be composed of five Senators, each with a term of four months. Senators shall be elected from each Region, respectively."

2. Article I, Section 3 of the Constitution is hereby repealed.

3. Article I, Section 4 of the Constitution is amended to read: "The Senate shall choose their other officers, and also appoint a President of the Senate internally to be vested with powers determined by this Constitution and Senate rules and proceedings."

4. Article I, Section 3, Clause 3 is amended to read: "For any Bill or Resolution to pass the Senate, it shall have gained a majority in a valid vote. Before the Bill or Resolution becomes Law, it shall be presented to the Premier of the Senate, unless it be concerning the rules for the proceedings of the Senate. If the Premier approves, he shall sign it, and it shall be passed to the President of the Republic of Atlasia. If the Premier does not approve, he shall return the Bill with his objections to the Senate, and it shall not become Law. Upon reconsidering the Bill, if the Senate shall approve the legislation by two-thirds of its number, it shall be presented to the President. If the President approves, he shall sign it, and it shall become Law. If the President does not approve, and the Bill does not have the signature of the Premier, it shall not become Law. If the President does not approve, and the Bill has the signature of the Premier, he shall return the Bill with his objections to the Senate, and it shall not become Law. Upon reconsidering the Bill, if the Senate shall approve the legislation by two-thirds of its number, it shall be presented to the people by way of public referendum. The Bill shall become Law upon approval by a majority of the People voting in public polls in a majority of the Regions. Such votes shall last for exactly five days and shall be administered by the Governor of the Region or other officer as the Law of the Region may provide. Citizens will cast their vote by public post. If a Bill is not returned to the Senate by the President within seven days after it shall have been presented to him, it shall become Law regardless."

5. Article I, Section 4, Clause 1 of the Constitution is hereby repealed.

6. Article I, Section 4, Clause 2 of the Constitution is amended to read: "Elections for the seats of the Senate shall be held in the months of February, June and October."

7. Article I, Section 4, Clause 4 of the Constitution is amended to read: "If a vacancy shall occur in a Senate seat, then the Governor of that Region shall appoint a person to fill the remainder of that term."

8. Article I, Section 4, Clause 5 of the Constitution is hereby repealed.

9. Article II, Section I, Clause 1 of the Constitution is amended to read: "The executive power shall be vested in the President of the Republic of Atlasia. He shall be elected for a term of approximately four months."

10. Article II, Section I, Clause 2 of the Constitution is amended to read: "No person shall be President who has not attained 250 or more posts, and is not a registered voter."

11. Article II, Section 2, Clause 3 of the Constitution is amended to read: "The President shall take office at noon Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday in the month after their election."

12. Article II, Section 3 is hereby renamed: "Vacancy and Incapacity of the Presidency"

13. Article II, Section 3, Clause 1 of the Constitution is amended to read: "If the Presidency shall ever fall vacant, the President of the Senate shall become President. If the Presidency of the Senate is also vacant, then the Senate shall elect one of its members as President of the Senate to fill the office of the President of the Republic of Atlasia. The Senate shall provide for a special election to the presidency within one month of the office's vacancy."

14. Article II, Section 3, Clause 2 of the Constitution is hereby repealed.

15. Article II, Section 3, Clause 3 of the Constitution is amended to read: "No person shall be elected to the office of President more than twice consecutively."

16. Article II, Section 3, Clause 4 of the Constitution is amended to read: "Whenever the President transmits to the Senate his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the President of the Senate as Acting President."

17. Article II, Section 3, Clause 5 of the Constitution is amended to read: "Whenever the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Atlasia and a two-thirds majority of the Senate sign a declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the President of the Senate shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President. Thereafter the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office upon his declaration that he is capable of discharging the said powers and duties, or when the Chief Justice and Senate annul their previous declaration."

18. All Amendments and Statutes currently governing the office of the Vice President are hereby void insofar as they relate to that office.

19. All Amendments and Statutes currently governing the office of the President pro tempore are amended to replace all instances of "President pro tempore" with "President of the Senate."


There it is. I believe I covered all instances in the Constitution that must be addressed. Is there anywhere else I should post this or will you take it from here?

[Purple State]

And here I was thinking I was being original. Oh well, I do like the longer version better. Feels more comprehensive. Your call.

What is a non-Senator doing in this thread, rambling on like that?  Shoo!  Shoo!  The Broom of Justice is back in session!

Ouch, don't be bitter. :-P

[Purple State]

Hadn't caught that. Thanks then. The Amendment seems to have decent support among current senators.

[Purple State]

Resolution is Passed

From the gallery

*Applause and wild cheers*

[Purple State]

Ok, I understand that it has not been long since the passage of this resolution, but really, there needs to be immediate action here.

[Purple State]

Can we have the final resolution posted in a thread to begin delegate selection? Because it is the job of the governors it is probably best to put it in the Elections forum, rather than this one.