SCOTUS overturns Roe megathread (pg 53 - confirmed)

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Biden should have packed the court. We needed an FDR after Hoover figure because Trump was that bad, instead we got a geezer who has made nearly every wrong move. We heard "we can't pack the court because it would antagonize the conservatives" but some of us knew it didn't matter because they've been scheming since the rise of the so called "moral majority" to do exactly this, this very moment.

Look, we can't even get the Senate to eliminate the damn filibuster. How many congressmen do you think we have for packing the court?

If Ruchio and Shelby, where they've gone after the elections these people keep their jobs over, weren't going to motivate them, the plight of women who aren't rich enough to fly to New York to take care of these things isn't going to move them.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Also, the language he uses here around substantial due process would enable overturning Griswold and Oberfell too.

But, Hilary Clinton used an email server once, so it's not like we had a choice.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

I fully expect most Republican states to pass blanket bans within the next month after the decision goes live. They’ll also likely try fugitive abortion acts and basically bury themselves in the long run.

Allot of them already have bans on the books that will automatically go into effect.

Also, for extra fun, because no one thought it would actually happen, they tend to be poorly thought out and broadly written.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Absolutely disgusting, if true.

What I think many abortion ban proponents and Republican politicians don't get that statewide bans are primarily a war on poor women, who happen to be disproportionally black or Hispanic. Anyone from a conservative state with enough money is just going to sit in a plane and have an abortion in California, New York or Illinois, or somewhere abroad. All it does is preventing abortions for less wealthy women/families.

Furthermore, this is just a move backwards by a minority wanting to impose their moral views on society as a whole. Of course anything should be done to prevent abortions and late-term be restricted, but a total ban in some states is not a good idea. Generally, I believe abortion should be rare and legal.

Watch the GOP be quick to legalize abortion again when they realize that more Democrat babies are being born

They intend to make sure voting doesn’t matter in 18 years

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

https://twitter.com/Literature_Lady/status/1522202362366078979
Edit: corrected from url to tweet.

The draft opinion generally mentions Hale in connection with Edward Coke, William Blackstone, and/or Henry de Bracton. I doubt this tweet-er, or almost anybody on the forum for that matter, would have much patience for Coke's, Blackstone's, or Bracton's perspectives on issues like marital rape either, and at one point that I noticed Alito quote-mines Hale to make him seem more hostile to abortion than the whole quote suggests he was, but the Dobbs draft doesn't single out Hale in particular as uniquely authoritative on the subjects it discusses.

Also, you know Matthew Hale died 125 years before the US constitution was a written, and about 175 before substantive due process was a thing.
So I'm not sure how his opinion on the matter is relevant anyway.

Additionally, if you follow his logic of 'nothing 17th century jurists didn't consider isn't protected', good-bye Loving, good-bye Griswold.
He actually rattled off a list of cases that this opinion's logic would compel him to overturn, but then just declared they are different because he said.

It's a joke of an opinion and all the people that constantly defend the court as a body of serious jurists following where the law leads them need to understand how damn many opinions exactly like this, either just deciding that well established precedent doesn't apply in this case because they don't like the outcome or outright ignoring it, come out of this court every year.

ETA By the way, both paragon of legal virtue John Roberts and blessedly retired moderate hero Anthony Kennedy regularly did this.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

https://twitter.com/Literature_Lady/status/1522202362366078979
Edit: corrected from url to tweet.

The draft opinion generally mentions Hale in connection with Edward Coke, William Blackstone, and/or Henry de Bracton. I doubt this tweet-er, or almost anybody on the forum for that matter, would have much patience for Coke's, Blackstone's, or Bracton's perspectives on issues like marital rape either, and at one point that I noticed Alito quote-mines Hale to make him seem more hostile to abortion than the whole quote suggests he was, but the Dobbs draft doesn't single out Hale in particular as uniquely authoritative on the subjects it discusses.

Also, you know Matthew Hale died 125 years before the US constitution was a written, and about 175 before substantive due process was a thing.
So I'm not sure how his opinion on the matter is relevant anyway.

Additionally, if you follow his logic of 'nothing 17th century jurists didn't consider isn't protected', good-bye Loving, good-bye Griswold.
He actually rattled off a list of cases that this opinion's logic would compel him to overturn, but then just declared they are different because he said.

It's a joke of an opinion and all the people that constantly defend the court as a body of serious jurists following where the law leads them need to understand how damn many opinions exactly like this, either just deciding that well established precedent doesn't apply in this case because they don't like the outcome or outright ignoring it, come out of this court every year.

ETA By the way, both paragon of legal virtue John Roberts and blessedly retired moderate hero Anthony Kennedy regularly did this.

There's actually a page on congress.gov website listing each time the Supreme Court ignored muh stare decisis and explicitly overturned a past decision. It's happened something like a dozen times since 2018 alone. And yet Plessy of all cases is technically still on the books. Sad!

Remember Shelby County, when John Roberts overturned federal law that had been passed with near unanimously (only 33 votes against in House, 98-0 in the Senate) less that a decade ago explicitly because he thought that they hadn't given it enough consideration? Sure is some great judicial restraint there.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

THIS DOESN'T HELP, PLEASE SHUT THE F[INKS] UP WITH THIS TYPE OF LANGUAGE AT A TIME LIKE THIS

https://twitter.com/StateRepHong/status/1521298873859334145

The language is dumb, but acting like it's going to do any meaningful damage to the pro-choice cause is laughable. The internet isn't real life.

Sorry to dredge this up, I know this post is a couple days old, but I just had a conversation this afternoon with the least online person I know, and her exact words were, "You can't even say 'mothers' anymore". I don't know where she heard it, but we're way past the point of this being a Twitter only thing. Everybody knows that the left talks like this.

Politics as physics with equal and opposite reactions.

Republicans are actively trying to overthrow the republic, but on the other hand a random state rep is too sensitive in her language.
So both sides really.

Because seeming political and well informed without actually having to have an opinion is a drug allot of people can't quit.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

THIS DOESN'T HELP, PLEASE SHUT THE F[INKS] UP WITH THIS TYPE OF LANGUAGE AT A TIME LIKE THIS

https://twitter.com/StateRepHong/status/1521298873859334145

The language is dumb, but acting like it's going to do any meaningful damage to the pro-choice cause is laughable. The internet isn't real life.

Sorry to dredge this up, I know this post is a couple days old, but I just had a conversation this afternoon with the least online person I know, and her exact words were, "You can't even say 'mothers' anymore". I don't know where she heard it, but we're way past the point of this being a Twitter only thing. Everybody knows that the left talks like this.

Politics as physics with equal and opposite reactions.

Republicans are actively trying to overthrow the republic, but on the other hand a random state rep is too sensitive in her language.
So both sides really.

Because seeming political and well informed without actually having to have an opinion is a drug allot of people can't quit.

That's beautiful. But you need to win votes to take power in this country, so unless the left has figured out a way to win elections without persuading voters then I suggest it start speaking to the voters in a way they actually understand.

Umm, a State Rep from Wisconsin's twitter post may not be indicative of Democratic party messaging writ large?

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

https://twitter.com/DouglasKBlair/status/1523095574156742657
The people who leaked this need to be arrested and throw in prison for years

What law did they break?

Supreme Court opinions are not classified. At worst, it's a breach of protocol.

Also, I'm getting rather sick of arguments about the personal comfort of people in prominent positions of public trust. I'm far more interested in the impact their actions have on millions of people than whether Justice Kavanaugh gets a good night's sleep.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Releasing addresses of Supreme Court justices is a step gone too far. Someone ought to go to jail for this, because this is not at all acceptable. It doesn't matter if a conservative did it or a liberal did it. This is not a legitimate political activity anymore. The leaking of the opinion is problematic; but to go this far is to forfeit sympathy.

We ought to set a harsh precedent for something like this. I don't care if people feel unjustly persecuted because of this, though I hope no one does.

So just be clear here, you think people in positions of public trust should be immunized from the consequences of their actions?

We aren’t talking about a Nerodist campaign of assassinations here, we are talking about protests in front of a public official’s house.

There seems to be a general idea going around, see also Civility, Bipartisanship, etc, that the important principle of politics is that politicians are personal comfortable and get along with one another. Which is a fundamentally backwards and illiberal idea, essentially turning public officials into a noble class who aren’t accountable to the nation writ large but only their peers.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/roe-v-wade-overturn-opinion-poll-2022-05-08/

Not exactly a promising poll for the GOP.

Unfortunately, there is little to no evidence that promising to do things that are overwhelmingly opposed by the general public actually hurts your election chances.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Just gonna drop this right here.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/06/26/325806464/states-cant-mandate-buffer-zones-around-abortion-clinics-high-court-says

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

What the heck, this actually happened? I know it was out there and shouldn't be much of a surprise, though I still had hope it may not occur. Welcome back to the 1950s!

The only thing that really accomplishes is that poor women in red states can no longer afford abortions. If you make enough money, it's still possible to go a blue state or Canada. This is just cruel and makes no sense other than scoring political points.

Obama calls for activits to fight:

https://twitter.com/BarackObama/status/1540340642848690176

 Why didn't Obama fight when we elected him?

https://twitter.com/shaun_vids/status/1540372577985728512

He should have pressured Ginsburg to retire in 2013/14.

She and Biden-Collins voters in Maine at least deserve some blame for this as well.

He did. Ginsburg didn't listen. I was a huge Ginsburg fan, but her decision to stay on the Court is on her, not Obama. He literally had lunch with her where he said he was going to lose the Senate and she stayed b/c she wanted to be 93 years old or something before she left the Court. It's her fault. A tragic mistake that will undo a lot of what she spent her great career fighting for.

She should have retired but it also doesn’t matter.
Court packing is the only thing that will fix the American judiciary after 2016 and it’s been preemptively ruled out because high minded principles of fairness demand that we live under the arbitrary rule of John Roberts.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Anyone here who is pro-choice but believes that it should be a legislative matter?

No because Roe is a part of a large body of jurisprudence around substantive due process that underpins several landmark cases. EG Griswold, Lawerence, Obergefell

But the point is moot anyway because we don’t have a functioning legislative branch.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Actually this is far more unexpected than Casey (even if it's a pretty milquetoast statement):

https://twitter.com/Sen_JoeManchin/status/1540349633683230720?t=zqTOjrjG9lTcYZBt...

He won’t do a damn thing about it, so he can shove his statement the same place Princess CrossFit puts hers

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Murkowski's statement is out:

https://twitter.com/lisamurkowski/status/1540441537074679808?s=20&t=_Aj5oIjD...

Like Manchin, there is not way in hell she gets rid of the structural impediments to a functioning legislature that make her bill doomed.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

In a few years when SCOTUS decides that states rights no longer apply for this issue, would Reservations be able to become de-facto clinic oases?

(of course then Native rights would be swiftly chopped down.)

If Neil Gorsuch is ruling against tribal rights, something truly horrible has happened.

If you seriously think Gorsuch or any of his five coconspirators are doing anything other than reaching their preferred political outcome and making up justifications afterwards you aren’t paying attention.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1540368313041272834

So why did you ignore everyone telling you they were lying and when will you resign, Senator?

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

I actually do think that Manchin knew that the nominees were lying about Roe being settled law. It was painfully obvious he would've spiked Kavanaugh if he could have even though he was up for reelection. You have to hand it to him, he is his own dude with his own beliefs; he genuinely believes in his whole moderate shtick, but he's also a Democrat for a reason.

I neither know nor care if Murkowski or Collins knew that Gorsuch and Barrett/Kavanaugh respectively were lying.

You do not, under any circumstances, have to hand it to him. Sincerely believing stupid and/or immoral things is not a virtue.

But yes, everyone knew they were lying, no one cared. Manchin was always a no and Collins and Murkowski flipped a coin to decide who has to vote to confirm.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Question: how long until someone (presumably a doctor) gets prosecuted for breaking an abortion ban?

We are headed for a doctor shortage in our country. Prosecuting them and putting them away in prison sure isn't going to go over well with the population, seems to me.

Well also medical schools deliberate limit admissions and residencies so that there will always be less new doctors graduating every year than open positions. Hospitals make up the gap with IMGs and Nurse Practitioners.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

https://twitter.com/ap/status/1542504901074292737

While I support it, this will only work until the GOP gains control of the government. The Democrats better act fast because it is almost certain the GOP will gain control of one or both houses of Congress after the midterms.

Biden cod veto a repeal, no?

Shut with your logic

If elected representatives are allowed to pass laws, future legislatures could also pass laws by merely winning elections and we would have some kind of democracy. Think about the lack of bipartisan good feels that would create. It’s madness.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

They're not stopping.

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1542463030600032257

Literally unconstitutional

Gorsuch and Roberts won't be on board with this. This is a non-started. If a seventh R justice is named, I think it could happen though.

Kavanaugh explicitly stated in his concurrence that this is still allowed. It won't stand.

Are you serious still pretending that this court has principles other that than  you, that’s why?

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

So the media lied again

That's a bit of a leap, isn't it?

No it isn’t , the mainstream media is largely Democratic Party hacks at this point who look to make the GOP look as bad as possible.


Trump was right when he called them fake news except the point that right wing cable outlets like Fox are fake too

This is just delusional.

The Democratic Party hacks who decided that Hilary Clinton’s email was the defining issue of our times, the ones that ran 1,000,000,000 pieces about the Afghanistan withdrawal (that Trump’s dumbass treaty forced us into but you never hear that part) because apparently Joe Biden was supposed to fix the Afghan army in 5 months when the previous administrations couldn’t do it for 20 years, the ones that ran daily ‘here’s why lifelong Republicans in dinners love Trump’ pieces , the ooh scared CRT people, the ‘Biden fails to magically make Republicans agree with him in huge blow to administration’ people, the every single op-Ed is why Democrats need to just adopt Republican policies people, the bipartisanship is magic people.

What color is the sky in your world?

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Holy crap why is this still pinned lol, where's our inflation megathread?

This only matters to the hyperpartisans on this forum

Yes, clearly only hyperpartisans care about one of the landmark Supreme Court decisions in American history.

People heard "it's the economy, stupid" once and immediately declared themselves political savants who think they know better than everyone else because economic issues are the only issues that could possibly matter and "social issues" (read: any issue that predominantly affects anyone other than straight white dudes) are a meaningless distraction.

We should run in economic issues
OK here’s my plan to extend child tax credits, raise the minimum wage, and revitalize our energy infrastructure.
No no not like that