Alabama Megathread: Bombshell allegations

[GeorgiaModerate]

McCain has called for Moore to step aside immediately, with no "if true" caveat.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Pence:

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[GeorgiaModerate]

This ‘if true’ line used in all the GOP statements is going to be their out. Next week all will be forgiven and they’ll just say it was never enough proven

Considering a week is a lifetime in politics i bet nobody remembers it anymore(heck consider how many people already forgotten about vegas).

It will be much harder to forget once the ads start, which will happen if Moore stays in the race (which I'm sure will happen).

[GeorgiaModerate]

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[GeorgiaModerate]

JMC has a poll of the race in the field starting tonight.  Results should be published no later than Sunday.

[GeorgiaModerate]

JMC has a poll of the race in the field starting tonight.  Results should be published no later than Sunday.

Good to know, but arent they not the best pollster?

Yeah, 538 has them rated C. 

[GeorgiaModerate]

Romney:

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[GeorgiaModerate]

DDHQ 1-day poll (Nov 9), 515 LV

Moore 46.4
Jones 46.0
Other 3.8

With Strange:

Jones 43.6
Moore 41.3
Strange 12.3
Other 1.4

[GeorgiaModerate]

Senators Mike Lee and Steve Daines have withdrawn their endorsements of Moore.

[GeorgiaModerate]

This is the most pathetic defense of Roy Moore yet:

https://twitter.com/ScottPresler/status/928994208941297664

Note: This guy is gay and he's defending a man who thinks he should be dead for being so.

Really have you heard AL state auditor?
"Zechariah was extremely old to marry Elizabeth and they became the parents of John the Baptist," Zeigler said. "Also take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus."

Um...wasn't Jesus conceived by...

Oh, why bother.

[GeorgiaModerate]

He merely said they became the parents of Jesus, not how. They took advantage of the adoption tax credit the House Republicans are trying to axe.

ROFL!

[GeorgiaModerate]

Alabama Republicans float pushing back special election

[GeorgiaModerate]

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[GeorgiaModerate]

Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-IL) says the Senate should refuse to seat or expel Moore if he's elected:

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[GeorgiaModerate]

I have a feeling this story won't be the last shoe to drop.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Ivey spox says she won't move the date.

Good for her.

[GeorgiaModerate]

OK, take a look at today's front page of the Florence (AL) Times Daily: http://www.newseum.org/todaysfrontpages/?tfp_display=gallery&tfp_region=USA&tfp_sort_by=state&tfp_id=AL_TD

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/marquardta/status/929429310510911490

@Greedo: this enough proof?

This kind of corroboration is going to keep trickling out as long as Moore stays in the race.  It's like the death of a thousand cuts.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Greedo, how about this corroboration (on a conservative website) of the 14-year-old's story?  https://www.redstate.com/patterico/2017/11/10/another-person-corroborates-roy-moores-accuser/

If you're still not persuaded, tell us what WOULD persuade you?

[GeorgiaModerate]

I don't think this one has been mentioned yet.  A former AL chief justice had "heard rumors" of alleged sexual misconduct against Moore in 2013:

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[GeorgiaModerate]

Sen. Cassidy withdraws his endorsement:

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[GeorgiaModerate]

Does anyone have any fundraising figures?

As of 9/30:

Moore: $3.4M raised, 2.8M spent, 540K on hand
Jones: $1.6M raised, 600K spent, 1M on hand

https://www.opensecrets.org/races/summary?cycle=2018&id=ALS1

[GeorgiaModerate]

Can we please not bother replying to Greedo? It's clear he and Arkansas Yankee have no real problem with child molesters in the US Senate, so let it be.

We have reached Peak Greedo, just put him on ignore and he's been essentially defending pedophilia here.

Dude if the stuff with the 14 year old gets comfirmed then I will not support Moore but right now we’re false accusing him.

Greedo, I asked you about this corroboration last night, but you didn't respond:

Greedo, how about this corroboration (on a conservative website) of the 14-year-old's story?  https://www.redstate.com/patterico/2017/11/10/another-person-corroborates-roy-moores-accuser/

If you're still not persuaded, tell us what WOULD persuade you?

Seriously: What is your standard for confirmation?  Be reasonable.  Pick the same standard you would use to disqualify a Democractic candidate.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Something that I think gets lost in the discussion by some people is that we are not judging whether Moore is guilty of a crime, but whether he is fit to hold office.  These are far different standards.  

Greedo's presumed age makes him too young to have served on a jury, but I've served on several, and I'm sure many others here have done so as well.  One case I served on was actually fairly similar to the situation with Moore and the 14-year-old.  The judge, who was quite good, carefully explained to us that in a criminal trial (this was a felony trial) the standard was that the state must prove the charge beyond a reasonable doubt; even evidence that would create a "grave suspicion" of guilt was not enough to convict.  However, if it had been a civil trial then a much lower standard would be required, merely a "preponderance of evidence".  (I've also served on a civil trial, and we did find for the plaintiff based on that standard.)

Regarding Roy Moore, we're not trying a criminal case or even a civil case against Moore.  We are judging whether he is fit to be elected to the Senate.  Some of us, including me, feel that he was already unfit, based on his statements that a Muslim should not be allowed to serve in Congress, which is a clear disregard for the First Amendment, and his removal from office for violating court orders, which is a clear disregard for the rule of law.  What the current allegations show is a grown man attempting to create relationships with young girls, including using his position in the courthouse to find ones likely to be in a vulnerable emotional state (she was waiting outside a custody hearing!)  This is yet another strike against his fitness for office.

Character and integrity matter in our leaders.  Based on all of the above, Moore is not fit to be elected dogcatcher, let alone a United States Senator.

(For the curious: we found the defendant not guilty in the felony trial.  He might have done it, but it was equally possible he didn't, and the state didn't come close to proving it.  We were somewhat surprised that it even came to trial with such a poor case.)

[GeorgiaModerate]

I might not be so adamant about not letting this seat go to a Democrat, if the Democrats were not trying to disrupt the nomination process across the board.  

I can understand the attempt to slow down the judicial nominations.  But I want them to be approved.  So, I do not want to give you another weapon.

There no excuse for the slow down of Executive Department nominations. That has to stop.

Interpretation: you don't care how unfit Moore is, he's better than letting a Democrat take the seat temporarily (Jones would almost certainly lose in 2020).

At least you admit that you choose partisanship over principle, and I'll give you props for being up front about it.  That's better than many who try to pretend otherwise.