Israel-Gaza war

[Red Velvet]

UN vote on a resolution demanding Israel to "withdraw from all occupied Syrian Golan to the line of June 4, 1967."

Fairly predictable and representative of the current world alignment on Israel-Hamas

To generalize, without the exceptions here and there:

White Anglos - Against
Other Western - Abstain
Non-Western - In Favor

[Red Velvet]

UN vote on a resolution demanding Israel to "withdraw from all occupied Syrian Golan to the line of June 4, 1967."

Fairly predictable and representative of the current world alignment on Israel-Hamas

To generalize, without the exceptions here and there:

White Anglos - Against
Other Western - Abstain
Non-Western - In Favor

The against list to explicitly state them:

Australia, Canada, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Palau, the UK, and the U.S.

Remove the 3 that are effectively South Pacific protectorates of the U.S., that is such a limited but distinct set of countries. It's just missing New Zealand which abstained, as did Japan, South Korea, and all of the EU.

The EU, New Zealand and even Japan abstaining is just expected though, they’re the “Friendlier Western that don’t like to appear they’re the exact same thing as the US” and try to at least pass the idea of independence to others.

New Zealand is kinda like Europe in a sense, even if they’re White Anglo. Not quite like an Ireland (where history with UK gives them at least some perspective of the other side) at all but still positioning itself as the friendliest “more moderate” place of the Five Eyes. Which is exactly what Europe does with their light criticism of US but never in a way that sounds meaningful.

It’s very different from the Five Eyes Trio of Canada; UK and Australia that never hide their inconditional alignment to US + Israel voting in its favor.

Abstention list is basically the combo of Western places that aren’t White Anglo + Ireland and New Zealand +some of the Global South countries with current Right-Wing governments like Guatemala or Uruguay.

While the list that voted in favor is basically >80% of the Global South.

[Red Velvet]

https://twitter.com/TarcisoRenova/status/1730938137482756128

[Red Velvet]

Why should maintaining a Jewish majority even be a factor? Nobody cared about maintaining a white majority in Rhodesia or South Africa. Israel should be held to the exact same standard.

Because history has shown wherever not a majority they tend to face persecution.  There are loads of countries with white majorities so no need for Rhodesia or South Africa to be one.  By contrast there is only one country with a Jewish majority, Israel.

That is just beyond stupid. Should we then have a country for the Quebecois and your First Nations?

As an American (by American I mean from the Americas, not the U.S.), the notion of states based on ethnicity is this horrid 20th-century European monstrosity pushed by that complete dumbass of a President Woodrow Wilson which clearly influenced Hitler's thoughts when it came to what the nation-state should look like and created several wars and deaths with people drawn on the wrong side of the line. You can't have an ethnic-based state and for example be for immigration, because immigration naturally makes your state less ethnically pure therefore robbing the state's raison d'etre, yet the free movement of people is considered a cornerstone to the modern cosmopolitan world.

You’re from a continent of immigrants, so the Notion of Nation-States looks something completely absurd to us two exactly because we don’t define ourselves that way but literally every other continent values that ethnic purity stuff A LOT. And not just in White Europe threatened by outside-continent immigrants darkening their population at all. Being immigrant in Asia or Africa, depending of where you’re from, is not that easy either.

Theoretically, I agree with the idea Israel should just drop the idea of being a Jewish State simply because I think defining your country excessively through a religion or race is naturally bigoted - but that multicultural interpretation can also be validly interpreted as something that weakens the idea of national identity that many places have and WEAKENS diversity too because of that.

Like, if Israel isn’t a Jewish majority State, then where you would find a Jewish majority State? I don’t think it’s inherently wrong for these elements to define a country - the only thing that it cannot happen is for it to be an open goal to be pursuit at all costs. Ex: It’s okay if you want to stimulate a specific characteristic for your country - like a religion majority - as long as you’re not ERASING or OPPRESSING people who don’t fit into your mold.

That’s when you know what Israel does is pure bigotry and not valid: They want Palestines out of Gaza so that they don’t have to be integrated into Israeli society, threatening the Jewish identity that it has. And if it’s totally valid for Israel to want to stay as a large Jewish majority, then it’s an obvious prerogative that they should leave Gaza alone or else they don’t get to complain sh*t about Jewish identity being threatened.

[Red Velvet]

Some people in the West are just stuck inside XX Century concepts of their nations and don’t realize new generations have a completely different background.

Jewish people were racially persecuted inside the West when these countries were all massively White dominated, with white western supremacists seeing Jews as the “Lesser White” ethnicity in their countries.

Nowadays the context is completely different, with Arab and Muslim immigrants receiving the short end of the stick by far and the US soon becoming a non-white and non-western majority country due to increase of American Latino immigration.

The Western world as it existed simply doesn’t anymore, globalization transformed it into something entirely new. And Jewish people are indeed holders of white privilege in this context in the same way WASPs have always been in places like the USA.

For WHITE people I understand why they might see Jews under the lenses of white guilt because of the racially motivated massacre and genocide they as whites committed against them in first half of XX Century. However if you put yourself in the shoes of anyone who is NOT white, from their perspective the social difference between Jewish people and the average White person in the West is basically non-existent.

[Red Velvet]

Not sure if this was already posted.

While support for the Palestinians is still quite low, only 39% of Americans say they side with Israel. Ukraine is still very popular.

https://twitter.com/jacobkornbluh/status/1742606406765756778?t=86PQQRZXBV9C7QX6t...

I think its a good thing that a solid majority (55%) of Democrats either sympathize more with the Palestinians or equal. Another 20% unsure. For total Americans, its about 40% with 20% unsure

I think once Gen Z starts voting in mass and the American public gets fully educated on the issue, we might get a South Africa situation. Sanctions on Israel might no longer be taboo, to pressure for a two state solution.

No one can deny, the tide is turning when it comes to public opinion. Compare this poll to 10 years ago. Not even Vosem

Love that you're leaving out the ugly part about that.

GenZ, for all the hype about being the first generation "immune to propaganda" is in fact the most indoctrinated out of any generation in the US ever. This isn't just because of TikTok, but demographics mean that these people will be in charge of our political system, universities, and corporations.

The people I grew up with don't deserve to be homeless because nobody will hire Jewish people. Their kids don't deserve to be rejected from colleges anyone else would get into because they are Jewish.

That's what America is headed towards.

I think it's more down to how race is treated and taught. You talk to blacks, Latinos, they see Jews as just white people, which means they're a majority group not due any special status. In 1900, Irish and German were races as race was defined at the time. Now, there's no such thing, because race left ethnicity and became defined by skin color.

In the USA context only that was ever the standard, important to stress! Everywhere else the standard was always very different than theirs, especially LatAm where the largest European influence wasn’t from Ireland or Germany, but from Spain or Portugal.

And that happened ONLY because Germans and Irish and British were the main European blocs the country received. Which made these specific groups be seen as the ~white parameter~ inside USA.

As the immigration trends shifted later to other huge blocs of European immigration - such as Italian which is Southern European - other European groups that were seen as non-white in USA (like Italian) were absorbed into the parameters of Whiteness in USA.

And later, with outside of Europe immigration being dominant nowadays, mostly Mexican by FAR, the Whiteness parameters are bound to be changed once more as the center of whiteness becomes much less rigid than it was before (only people who could be whiter than Germans are what? Scandinavians only?)

Immigration trends explain literally everything as you can see how the country was transformed by different influences across time, with largest immigration groups shifting from German and Irish —> Italian —> Mexican. Those are simply facts:

Comparison with Brazil, for fun:

USA needs to accept its fate once and for all instead of acting like they’re the same country from a century ago.

[Red Velvet]

Some people in the West are just stuck inside XX Century concepts of their nations and don’t realize new generations have a completely different background.

Jewish people were racially persecuted inside the West when these countries were all massively White dominated, with white western supremacists seeing Jews as the “Lesser White” ethnicity in their countries.

Nowadays the context is completely different, with Arab and Muslim immigrants receiving the short end of the stick by far and the US soon becoming a non-white and non-western majority country due to increase of American Latino immigration.

The Western world as it existed simply doesn’t anymore, globalization transformed it into something entirely new. And Jewish people are indeed holders of white privilege in this context in the same way WASPs have always been in places like the USA.

For WHITE people I understand why they might see Jews under the lenses of white guilt because of the racially motivated massacre and genocide they as whites committed against them in first half of XX Century. However if you put yourself in the shoes of anyone who is NOT white, from their perspective the social difference between Jewish people and the average White person in the West is basically non-existent.

Dude, you're South American. A significant fraction of your ancestors are the people who tortured, murdered and expelled Jews from the Iberian peninsula. Now you want to play the victim as some ****ed up way to legitimise hatred toward Jews again?

If I represent my ancestors, then I’m almost literally everything in the world from oppressor to oppressed: Iberian Portuguese + Berber Muslims + Western European + Sephardic Jewish + Indigenous Americans + Italians and literally everything around the Mediterranean + Enslaved Africans who were brought here.

My country in average happens to be even MORE diverse and mixed than me and therefore is NOT a Western country because of strong Iberian genetic heritage like you’re trying to suggest. Which makes Brazil and Brazilians even more of a perfect balance in a increasingly polarized world. Latin America is the true unbiased “center” of the world exactly BECAUSE of our heritage. We can understand all points of view.

USA is quickly becoming a non-white multicultural country like us too, it’s simply inevitable. You should be embracing these changes as a STRENGTH instead of keeping a denialism based on past century “greatness” nostalgia. That greatness was mostly structured under whiteness power terms for even the people inside it.

Once USA drops Europe for the Global South, you will see that you have an important place in the new world that is emerging. You finally will be able to call yourselves a true American country, like us.

[Red Velvet]

Precisely this. You have all these seriously awful takes about “newer generations” being dumb or historically ignorant or brainwashed by Tiktok because of their different geopolitical mentality in comparison to older generations when the answer is much simpler: They look much different than previous ones.

In the video I posted, mass Mexico migration started in the 70s and 50 years is around the time you start seeing the effects as many have kids and stop being just “immigrants” to become fully American citizens.

These migration effects will become only more INTENSIFIED as migration inflows into the US are even larger nowadays from Latin America as whole, including Mexico as the main source. If the new generation isn’t something people here approved, you will only be even more sad and bitter with the one that will come in 2070.

It’s not just Latin American influxes that are even stronger now in comparison to 1970, LOOK at the video I posted. Immigration from China; India; Philippines are amongst the top source of places that arrive to live in the USA nowadays.

Of the entire TOP 20 sources of immigrants nowadays for the USA, only TWO are Western: Ukraine and only because of the current war and UK because of language but even them are decreasing in number of immigrants as you can see in the video. All the other 18 are from the Global South.

What annoys/entertains me are all the dramatic takes about “The Fall of an Empire” or “USA downfall” all based only on a shift of domestic demographics darkening and diversifying the country background lmao.

What a huge tragedy, USA won’t have the same mindset as strongly shaped by hard whiteness like it had and maybe it will become less geopolitically tied to Europe and European narratives as a result of becoming less white, “big” deal. Get a f***ing grip and stop acting like your country is slowly dying, that’s what I feel like saying. It’s just changing, like everything constantly is.

If anything that’s an opportunity for you to become more popular and powerful in the Global South if you guys finally embrace the fact you’re not white anymore and finally give up whiteness geopolitical enforcement, with special treatment always given by you to Europe while everywhere else is treated like trash. Considering that Europe is the place set to decadence in the near future while the South is the future, you’ll be well-positioned as hell in the new global order.

Brazil has always been a diverse country and that is a positive for us, it’s why we are part of the Global South with an unique identity of our own and not borrowed from someone else like USA has for the longest time.

USA is a friend American country, with shared background to us. It’s about time it finally joins us as part of the South instead of building themselves under a mirror of Europe (or what Europe represented in the past) that they never were anyway.

[Red Velvet]

Considering that Europe is the place set to decadence in the near future while the South is the future, you’ll be well-positioned as hell in the new global order.

Debatable with climate change. The South is going to feel that a lot more.

That is all speculative but even then, that would increase mass migration movements to near the poles, transforming even more the face and cultural + geopolitical behaviors from what you understand as the Global North.

There’s no turning the clock back to XX Century or before no matter how people try it. The future has already arrived. Whites will be forced to give up their privilege no matter if domestically or internationally.

[Red Velvet]

Indeed identity obviously shapes political opinions, but to chalk changes in opinion up solely to demography misses the obvious important fact that the circumstances today are different than they were twenty years ago and people form their political views early on.

I never said it was the ONLY reason, I said it was a BIG reason that is always ignored. Globalization has effects on changing demographics but also on how people interact with each other and therefore their access to information.

If in the past only one side could tell their version of the story, we’re closer to a world where more sides are heard simply because they’re able to exist in the media now and make themselves heard.

But besides having the platform, you also need the sympathy though and the new colors of the US new generation makes them more open to hear and give credit to those different narratives because they’re able to see at least a part of themselves in it.

Immigration assimilation goes both ways, the immigrant adopts much of the culture and national identity values it represents while also adding something new of their own to slowly transform that culture as well.

Or do you think it’s simply a coincidence that USA culturally resembles more and more a Latin American country nowadays, exactly in the moment in history where nearly 1/3 of its ENTIRE immigration poll is composed of just Mexicans (all LatAm reaching even larger shares)?

Israel is not White

So? Neither is the USA nowadays. Great reason for both to stop geopolitically acting like such.

[Red Velvet]

Indeed identity obviously shapes political opinions, but to chalk changes in opinion up solely to demography misses the obvious important fact that the circumstances today are different than they were twenty years ago and people form their political views early on.

I never said it was the ONLY reason, I said it was a BIG reason that is always ignored. Globalization has effects on changing demographics but also on how people interact with each other and therefore their access to information.

If in the past only one side could tell their version of the story, we’re closer to a world where more sides are heard simply because they’re able to exist in the media now and make themselves heard.

But besides having the platform, you also need the sympathy though and the new colors of the US new generation makes them more open to hear and give credit to those different narratives because they’re able to see at least a part of themselves in it.

Immigration assimilation goes both ways, the immigrant adopts much of the culture and national identity values it represents while also adding something new of their own to slowly transform that culture as well.

Or do you think it’s simply a coincidence that USA culturally resembles more and more a Latin American country nowadays, exactly in the moment in history where nearly 1/3 of its ENTIRE immigration poll is composed of just Mexicans (all LatAm reaching even larger shares)?

Israel is not White

So? Neither is the USA nowadays. Great reason for both to stop geopolitically acting like such.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but other than a slightly higher number of Spanish speakers than a few years ago, how do we culturally resemble a Latin American country more than ever before? Without including race and heritage in the equation, how do you define "culturally Latin American"?

US politics were something that culturally felt completely alien to me in the past, as if the priorities and topics were entirely different from whatever we were discussing.

Nowadays almost everything hits close to home so much in how it mirrors situations I always saw within my country and Latin America more broadly.

I get that major part of this is how internet and technology stimulate cultural uniformity. In that sense, not only US imported more Latin American behaviors but we also imported more if their topics.

However, there are lots of standard behaviors that wouldn’t be as popularized TO THE SAME LEVEL inside USA if it wasn’t for internal changing demographics.

For example, criticism of Israel for example, is something that to my surrounding environment always felt extremely common-sense and standard for the Left, in a cultural sense. Lots of significant Syrian and Lebanese immigrant influence in Brazil elites too, who were well-assimilated into the country culture and into christian religion, in a way that it makes harder for in the imaginary to see Arabs or Arab influence as an inherent natural threat because of irreconcilable cultural differences.

Looking at USA though, their background on that regard was always extremely exotic and alien to me. In terms of population or immigrant share in regards the entire group, I think they received less influence from these places than we did and also the Jewish immigrant community has always been stronger and more united in numbers and cultural influence in a crazy way to stimulate even minor criticism of Israel in regards relationship with Palestine to be seen as some kind of taboo or something. That never really existed here around me, that taboo is something entirely from White Western world but more specifically the Anglo Western world.

Nowadays here we have some crazy Evangelicals who are obsessed with Israel but that is a religious right-wing isolated bubble and that never existed before (result of US influence that they exist now), not something that affects the mainstream culture, where no one will blink an eye if you say criticism of Israel regardless if they disagree with you.

If anything, I always felt more socially judged and “excluded” when I didn’t trash Israel. I simply said I was curious about visiting it one day in a date with this GAY dude and he looked shocked at me, explaining how controversial it was for me to say something like that, because I would be supporting an apartheid regime through tourism.

So in a way, increasingly becoming “less of a taboo” to criticize Israel is something that I associate to the political Latin-Americanization of the US yeah, while also being tied to the country changing demographics resembling more and more Latin Americans.

That is only ONE example in order to stay on topic but I think everyone can perceive the Latin-Americanization of the USA in multiple regards beyond this. Even Trump existence and rhetoric, unintentional as it may be, has influences of communication strategies Latin American right-wing leaders have always used - reason why he’s able to connect so much better with US Latinos than past Republicans (who always sounded very white and elitist).

[Red Velvet]

https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1747257400854200388

[Red Velvet]

Benjamin Netanyahu snaps and threatens Lula: “Crossed a Red Line”

https://twitter.com/netanyahu/status/1759221711403188718

[Red Velvet]

Benjamin Netanyahu snaps and threatens Lula: “Crossed a Red Line”

https://twitter.com/netanyahu/status/1759221711403188718

Yeah can't wait for Israel to invade Brazil. What are they gonna do about it

They did something, they just declared Lula “Persona Non Grata” in Israel as a reaction lol.

That’s actually the moment I feel the proudest about my vote tbh, I always saw Lula as someone too weak and conciliatory to buy any fight with literally anyone so him taking a stand on this makes me happy.

Meanwhile, no other global leader joined or supported Israel on this to condemn Lula’s comparison. This is historical and Lula helps move/consolidate the international position on this matter and Brazil as a leadership voice for the Global South.

[Red Velvet]

I'm deeply saddened and shocked by president Lula's bad faith statement about comparing what Israel is doing in Gaza with Adolf Hitler and the Holocaust, and although I think that even though Netanyahu's government has comitted numerous human rights violations, equating the two things are like comparing apples to oranges.

I'm making an impact statement here: I'm personally breaking the ties with the current government, and from now on I'm moving toward a third way of democratic center in 2026, beyond the PT and Bolsonarism, which are currently two failed models in Brazil. President Lula's third term is being much worse than the previous two terms and in an extremely polarized country like Brazil he is acting like Bozo, disuniting the population and talking a lot of bullsh**t.

Despite this, I don't regret at all having voted and supported him strongly in 2022, and I would certainly vote for him in almost every presidential election since 1989, as I said in a post from September of the last year, but now I want new blood, from someone conciliatory and with modern ideas who can develop my country into something even more fullfilling.

Lula didn’t lie at all. So much that NOBODY outside Israel is even contesting his statement. Goal scored. If anything he took way too long.

What happens is that different notions and rules are applied based on geography, culture and race.

When you directly compare these events like Lula did, you actively treat onto the public consciousness a non-white and non-European country with the same standards given to white European countries, like it should be as they aren’t superior to anyone.

As someone who isn’t European and doesn’t benefit from those established structures, Lula stands up for better and equal parameters for everyone. Therefore standing up for Brazil itself as we DON’T have the same kind of privilege.

Luciano Huck describing what goes on in GAZA as a TRAGEDY is what is vomit inducing to me. Like an open admission of what is happening but minimizing it and diminishing people’s lives.

Tragedy is what happens in an accident that is inevitable or a natural disaster. When the action is done actively by humans it’s not a tragedy, but a CRIME.

Many Brazilians often forget of the influence their country has internationally as one of the most important Non-Western countries, alongside India for example. There’s the incorrect normalized notion of being mere bystanders to whatever goes on outside.

What Lula does with this is to normalize calling out Israel actions with the appropriate seriousness that it deserves, using the political weight and prestige he know he has to influence other countries.

When even Brazil doesn’t speak up to what’s moral and right because it doesn’t feel free to do so, that sends the message to smaller south countries they don’t stand a chance.

That’s why countries such as Brazil, India, China, South Africa have the natural responsibility and obligation to be a vessel for the voice of other nations in the South that aren’t able to use it individually. Palestine, is one of those.

[Red Velvet]

It might also be an optics thing. If Russia or China vetoes it (which is actually pretty likely), then the USA won't be the only country having vetoed a "ceasefire" resolution.

Why is that? I haven't really been following the Russian or Chinese postures on this.

Because it’s simply just obvious? US insistently vetoed every proposal of ceasefire made by those two, why would they give a geopolitical victory to US by approving theirs?

I get confused with people seemingly really believing that geopolitics is driven mainly out of principles. It never is for anyone. Competing interests. Why did US veto every ceasefire proposal up until now when that’s basically a consensus in the international community?

Usually when this kind of bickering happens, two powers measuring dicks by domestically instrumentalizing third-party countries issues in order to not give a “win” to the other, in order to advance the agenda a small “neutral” country tends to be the one that has to advance the proposal by dialoguing with the major powers that have the veto ability in order to find a common ground for approval.

Otherwise every peace proposal created by Russia or China will be blocked by USA and every peace proposal made by USA will be blocked by Russia or China.

[Red Velvet]

Israel has already lost the war regardless if Hamas is destroyed (unlikley) or not. They have lost decades of prestige, irreparably damaged their relationship with the US, and are on the fast track to pariah status. But keeping power and staying out of prison is Netanyahu's goal above all else. And hurting Biden by extending this thing and killing more children is his best strategy.

It’s honestly impressive how the Global Far-Right has the reverse Golden Touch of Midas: everything they touch turns into a massive pile of sh*t instead.

Happened in Hungary; USA; Brazil and now Israel too. But the longer they stay in power, the bigger and more irreversible the damage is. In Israel case some people will still pretend to eat that sh*t like it was chocolate when they naturally wouldn’t but you can’t do that for too much long without vomiting and that’s what we’re seeing from places in the West, especially US.

After the open invitation of the Israeli government for the visit of Bolsonaro (whose passport is restrained by justice!) and other Brazilian Far-Right politicians, when they do this kind of lobbying for Trump in US as well, I feel like Israel has geopolitically positioned itself like a Hungary to much of the world, as if it was a safe place to people who hold that kind of ideology.

Like, if Bolsonaro hadn’t hide in the Hungarian embassy here after his passport was confiscated, I’m quite sure the Israeli one would be his 2nd option of the available ones.

It didn’t happen from one day to another, showing that the Far-Right takes power and destroys gradually. Orbán is in power since 2010 (14 years) and Netanyahu since 2009 (14 years too, with one year hiatus in 2021/2022)

[Red Velvet]

Trump just won the election today.

[Red Velvet]

https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1788387072589381820?t=9gXvQzyyvQnBSuX3KkO_ag...

IRL, when a friend starts doing tons of sh*t, like doing crimes and drugs, do you help them continue by buying them more drugs to use and giving them more guns to rob OR do you stage an intervention for them to stop with that kind of bad life?

Sorry, but Israel is a pariah country in the world right now - except in USA - precisely because of its actions and US neocons and complicit neolibs are only helping it go further down that route instead of actually saving them. And US internationalist credibility is going away with them as well:

https://twitter.com/sahouraxo/status/1788959351324975269
https://twitter.com/tparsi/status/1788956169358209046
List of the countries that voted in favor and against. You can see that even US Western allies voted in favor (Australia; France; Japan) or at least abstained so that it would pass (United Kingdom; Germany; Canada).

Only 9 countries were against: The USA itself and a bunch of far-right pariah countries such as Hungary (Orbán); Argentina (Milei) and Israel itself (Netanyahu). Alongside some small islands.

https://twitter.com/_Rawaney_/status/1788962027773276338

[Red Velvet]

Also, lmao at the notion that Hamas physically exists in its entirety in Gaza in order to justify destroying all of Gaza. It’s the same IQ kind of logic of Osama Bin Laden hiding in Iraq.

I think people who spread this kind of narrative understand it makes no sense though, they want the war for other reasons.

[Red Velvet]

https://twitter.com/sahouraxo/status/1788696871449272750
Belgian television. Unimaginable in USA (and honestly, anywhere else outside Europe but for very different reasons).

Laki should be very proud. Europeans (people, not the government) in general have been the most overwhelmingly Pro-Palestinian voices in how much invested they are in supporting it. Seriously, looking online at people around my age it’s always some Western European who feels the most emotionally moved by the Palestinian cause.

In USA you see this in parts of the youth as well but the Israel institutional support and from older people is much bigger than anywhere else as well. So it’s much more of a 50/50 dispute where strong passion lies in both sides and if even protests against Israel are being criminalized, no way in hell something like that would appear on their TVs as some specific political speech is actively repressed within USA.

From outside the West, people have their positions/opinions on the matter but I wouldn’t say they’re as passionate about it as Westerners are, regardless of side. Which is why something like that would also never appear on TV while interrupting their usual programming, not out of repression or anything, people just don’t care as much to do that kind of stuff I think. Global South societies tend to be much more insular as the effect of globalization is not as strong to the levels of the West IMO.

This is an Union Strike.

We Condemn the Human Rights Violations committed by the State of Israel.

Additionally, Israel is actively suppressing Press Freedom.

Therefore we are Temporarily Interrupting our Broadcast.

#CeasefireNow
#StopGenocide

[Red Velvet]

You're absolutely right about this.

I hope people will also understand more if i say i merely express what i consider the normal or majority view in Belgium that at the very least i'm not lying. I tend to think Atlas was a liberal / center-left forum, so i was very surprised to see most people here actually defend Israeli's actions, which in my opinion cannot be defended, and where genocide is the only appropriate term that can be used here. While on this forum, it was perceived as me merely expressing a fringe view, worthy of being banned according to some.

It's a good example of our different cultural environment and how it shapes people, but also how it's still a very institutional thing in the USA (& UK, and of course also controversial/sensitive in Germany due to their own history), where it is actually more taboo to express these kind of views, which imo is not a healthy way of looking at things.

Oh I get this as I definitely feel a giant difference between expressing my views in a left-wing Brazilian environment and then saying the same thing in a foreign environment with Western people from everywhere, but mostly the USA.

But since you know lots of your beliefs are a direct product of the environment in Belgium you grew-up in, then it shouldn’t be that surprising to you that lots of people here are extremely Pro-Israel as they also reflect a product of their environment as well. Even the “US left” (aka liberals) has stronger cultural connections to Israel because it’s not an ideological “left vs right” matter like you suggest but a cultural background one IMO.

It’s interesting when you grow up and realize how stuff you saw just as some curiosity as a kid is actually tied to major political differences.

Like, the entire exposition to Jewish culture I had as a child/teen was from US cultural products where the characters were Jewish and at the time I never really understood why those characters were able to have special parties or celebrate different holidays. Important to notice that even with those cultural differences, those characters were always portrayed like part of the world environment, fitting in inside that world and not really defined MAINLY by their religion. They dated; had friends; personal dramas just like everyone around them.

Jewish characters are very predominant in USA culture simply because they’re a big part of USA, the only country with more people of Jewish religion than Israel itself.

51% of the Jewish population of the world lives in USA; 30% in Israel and everywhere else individually has 3% or less. So it’s very natural for that cultural exposition to be more significantly concentrated in these two places.

Whereas Muslim cultural exposition possibly seems much more spread out and decentralized across multiple countries, USA not being one of them though. Also not something I had any contact with at all until I grew older, not even with movies, though there is a significant Syrian and Lebanese influence (not necessarily Muslim at all though) in my surroundings.

All the thin exposition I had about Islam was probably the one passed by US cultural products as well - and I grew in the 00s - so it was that kind of thing where a movie character in a plane would be suspicious or prejudiced about a guy wearing different clothing and with Arab facial characteristics. The characterization of Muslims wasn’t always as something necessarily evil, sometimes they would focus on others prejudice towards them, however they always stressed how those characters didn’t really fit in into that world, how much “foreign” they were in that background.

So it’s fun when you grow up and realize that this “world” presented to you on TV is only an USA cultural bubble. And that things in the world itself are much much more complicated.

But because US cultural products are so much consumed worldwide, it’s probably what created the impression to many that Jewish prejudice is a thing of the very distant past while Muslim prejudice is a thing of the present. Which is not an universal truth at all. People tend to judge and see “the world” as it is presented by the USA products and it’s only in THAT very specific cultural US background where Jewish people are treated like part of the crowd whereas Muslims are not.

When you understand that, it makes more sense why average US Americans have the positions they have and how it contrasts with the “world” where everyone else has their own different cultural baggage as well. And because they always see themselves as the center of the world, they also often assume the “world” tends to (or even should) reflect their cultural backgrounds, which is why there’s such angry resistance to whenever that is contested by outside cultures, even one as Western as yours, but one that probably had somewhat more exposition than theirs towards Muslims.

Which is why they will look at you based on THEIR cultural context lenses, not YOURS. And in their cultural lenses, for you to minimally see Muslims as equals to others who fit in better their background (Christians; Mormons; Jews) will be instinctively offensive as Islam is presented as something primitive and savage in US culture, therefore being “lesser” deserving of respect.

It’s about culture, not ideology.

[Red Velvet]

https://twitter.com/jdiamond1/status/1792508517544243416?s=12

Israel officials themselves said out loud that Israel is committing genocide.

ICC was forced to do it.

The crime is so blazon that if ICC don't do it, the rest of the world can easily point out the laws don't apply to western countries and their allies.

We can? We’ve been doing that since the conflict began! And we will keep doing it because the difference in treatment is extremely obvious.

You’re right that ICC was forced to do this, especially after the precedent of Putin being condemned by same court at a muuuuch faster rate than anybody moved anything to condemn Netanyahu.

They clearly don’t want to hold Israel accountable but they kinda have to in order to protect their relevance within the Global South under risk of becoming a joke that works AGAINST them, only stimulating more countries to leave the ICC.

Hot take: Both Putin and Netanyahu condemnations are very wrong in the sense the court is egregiously overstating their reach. It’s absolutely ridiculous to establish that country leaders cannot have diplomatic visits to another country (otherwise they’re jailed) because they’re at war.

A Netanyahu condemnation would soften perceptions of disgusting Western Double Standards, but the general dissatisfaction of an International Court feeling empowered to dictate to countries which main leaderships can or cannot be received is always going to be seen as interference on national business.

You will have both the Westerners pissed that their relation with Israel is directly affected by not being able to receive the Israel leader AND the Global South pissed about westerners lecturing about their relations with Russia.

Sometimes these silly theatrics are just counterproductive for everyone. I don’t think the Netanyahu condemnation solves anything regarding the conflict and dissatisfaction towards the ICC will remain.

[Red Velvet]

Israel should tell the ICC any attempt to arrest Israeli officials will be treated as a declaration of war and we should tell the ICC that we support Israel in doing that

That would simply END the ICC once and for all, with mass defections.

Which I am very in favor of, as a nationalist. It’s just fun to watch that the same people here (not referring to you, I am talking about red avis) posing as liberal internationalists only when it’s on THEIR national interests - ie: Putin being condemned - and then suddenly turning against international institutions whenever it’s NOT, like Netanyahu being condemned.

I’ve said this before, but we’re not in XX century anymore. USA will be forced to choose between being an interventionist + internationalist power or a non-interventionist + nationalist power.

World is becoming way more decentralized for it to successfully maintain its natural instinct of interventionist + nationalist without expecting major setbacks in return. And it’s becoming more and more clear that all of you guys - not just Trumpists, but Democrats too - will eventually choose to give up on your internationalist prestige first (and which gives you credibility that allows for interventionism) in order to protect national interests.

[Red Velvet]

Wow. GERMANY out of all places has come out to say it WILL abide to the ICC ruling and JAIL Netanyahu if he ever sets foot in Germany.

Huge defeat.