Biden VP news megathread (pg 286 - been selected, announcement could be today)

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

I think Morris is spot on in his analysis. Biden is the moderate candidate, so it would be strategically better to pick someone who is going to either excite the progressive left, or juice part of the Democratic coalition to enhance excitement. If anyone dares suggest the Democrats are embracing extremism, just run videos of the Trump placard, Confederate flag, and assault rifle-toting white militias in the Midwest that are trying to intimidate local legislators. Extremism and the right wing are basically synonymous at this point. Enough said.

Is it that important though? Soft members of the 'progressive left' are most likely going to vote Biden regardless, and appeasing Bernie's more hardcore supporters will require more than a progressive Veep. Who would that even be? As far as I can tell, the #NeverBiden set of the left hates Warren too. Even those with mostly left-leaning records like Kirsten Gillibrand are considered centrists by this set. Ilhan Omar? Rashida Talib? Yeah, way to destroy your chances of winning moderate WASPs, chasing after the hardcore supporters of a candidate who got destroyed after Nevada.

What Biden needs, moderate or progressive, is someone competent. The guy is 77 and bordering on senility, people need confidence that the VP is ready to take over from him at a moment's notice.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

I would be excited to watch the trainwreck of whatever a Biden/Nina Turner ticket would look like, but we can all recognize that it'd be a catastrophe.

The number of people seriously considering ticket was baffling. Bernie would be 78 when he took office, and he's already had a heart attack. He would need a VP who could step up to the plate at a moment's notice.




So yeah, let's go for someone whose highest-held office is one term as Ohio state senator, a term that she didn't even serve fully.

Don't get me wrong, Turner is a talented politician and a real firebrand for the left. But the idea that she could be POTUS material in 2020 was baffling and completely out of touch.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

I think Morris is spot on in his analysis. Biden is the moderate candidate, so it would be strategically better to pick someone who is going to either excite the progressive left, or juice part of the Democratic coalition to enhance excitement. If anyone dares suggest the Democrats are embracing extremism, just run videos of the Trump placard, Confederate flag, and assault rifle-toting white militias in the Midwest that are trying to intimidate local legislators. Extremism and the right wing are basically synonymous at this point. Enough said.

Is it that important though? Soft members of the 'progressive left' are most likely going to vote Biden regardless, and appeasing Bernie's more hardcore supporters will require more than a progressive Veep. Who would that even be? As far as I can tell, the #NeverBiden set of the left hates Warren too. Even those with mostly left-leaning records like Kirsten Gillibrand are considered centrists by this set. Ilhan Omar? Rashida Talib? Yeah, way to destroy your chances of winning moderate WASPs, chasing after the hardcore supporters of a candidate who got destroyed after Nevada.

What Biden needs, moderate or progressive, is someone competent. The guy is 77 and bordering on senility, people need confidence that the VP is ready to take over from him at a moment's notice.

What I'm trying to say is, just don't pick someone who is only famous for being a moderate, because you already have that. I'm not necessarily suggesting someone far left, and wouldn't support Omar or Tlaib as the choice. Ayanna Pressley, maybe. But something has to be done to shore up morale for the more progressively-minded wing of the coalition OR to fire up a slice of the Democratic coalition (young voters, black voters, female voters, etc.) Klobuchar will not do either of those things. I honestly don't understand why Klobuchar even bothered to run for president. Her platform was more about not doing things, and telling progressives why the things they wanted are impossible. She actively turns off progressive voters, she doesn't fire up female voters, especially not young female voters, and her polling with minority voters is weak. She appeals to white Midwesterners and thats about it. Coincidentally, thats one area where Biden is already strong. I don't think she does anything extra for the ticket that Biden already isn't doing.

Fair enough, I guess we have a disagreement on what Biden's biggest weakness is. I don't think it's his left flank, I think it's the fact that if he doesn't seem to know what planet he is on half the time. Klobuchar isn't an inspiring figure by any means, and she doesn't bring new people to the coalition. But she's competent, and that may be the biggest selling point after four years of Trump, and a consolation for the fact that her running mate doesn't inspire much confidence either.

I'm not totally sold on Klob though, for one MN is a close enough state that it could leave her senate seat vulnerable in a special election. There are others who could fit the description. Whitmer is one, but any governor joining the ticket at this moment (especially one who only got elected in 2018) will be received negatively, and possibly hurt the ticket in MI. Harris could be another. I don't think the running mate HAS to be a moderate though, if a progressive fits the description, then even better. I just can't think of any woman from the left wing who would deliver that. Warren is the best shot, but even she's a liability. Trump would love to bring up the whole Pocahantas thing day after day, which distracts from the fact that Warren is actually a very competent politician. The hardcore Bernie people seem to have abandoned her, too. Add to that the fact that she's 71, and you have a pretty weak shout for VP.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

The Veep job isnt that important after campaigning for Prez, really, we have made almost a 100 pages about Veep speculation. Warren, Harris, Whitmer, Abrams or Val Demings. The only duty they do after campaigning is break ties in the Senate and negotiations in Senate if party in majority.  If their party is in minority,  then let Minority Leader take over in negotiations.

Then, they are asked to travel to China, Japan, Germany, Arabia, UK, all where NATO allies are and Turkey and Israel.

Amy Klobuchar did bad with AA voters due to Biden claiming all the AA support due to Clyburn support. Of course if Biden wasnt in the race, she would of gotten more support

Under normal circumstances, yes. Joe Biden will be 78 in January, and the decline of his health is no secret to anyone. If there is one ticket where the veep job is more than window dressing, it's this one.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Man, Warren is so desperate for centrists to like her she’s gonna lose all her progressive appeal by 2024.

Sorry she's capable of being pragmatic and doesn't just act based on what one segment of the party thinks?

If you try to build consensus, you're a sellout. Bernie's right and everybody else is wrong and they suck and you suck. We're going to rebuild the New Deal Coalition by excluding every democrat who isn't perfectly left on all issues, because you know, FDR's coalition was famous for its ideological purity. Anyway, Sanders/Turner 2020 will sweep the rust belt because Bernie beat Hillary in Michigan back in 2016...Oh what Bernie lost? God dammit the centrists cheated by dropping out and making endorsements! Because that's what a winning candidate looks like, someone who can only win when their opponents are split three ways!

Bit of a strawman, I know. But I get TYT/Secular Talk/Humanist Report on my Youtube recommendations every now and then and good lord, the internet left is so hopelessly deluded sometimes.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Man, Warren is so desperate for centrists to like her she’s gonna lose all her progressive appeal by 2024.

Sorry she's capable of being pragmatic and doesn't just act based on what one segment of the party thinks?

If you try to build consensus, you're a sellout. Bernie's right and everybody else is wrong and they suck and you suck. We're going to rebuild the New Deal Coalition by excluding every democrat who isn't perfectly left on all issues, because you know, FDR's coalition was famous for its ideological purity. Anyway, Sanders/Turner 2020 will sweep the rust belt because Bernie beat Hillary in Michigan back in 2016...Oh what Bernie lost? God dammit the centrists cheated by dropping out and making endorsements! Because that's what a winning candidate looks like, someone who can only win when their opponents are split three ways!

Bit of a strawman, I know. But I get TYT/Secular Talk/Humanist Report on my Youtube recommendations every now and then and good lord, the internet left is so hopelessly deluded sometimes.

Biden's fans are all about unity until the left gets involved, it seems.

I'm not a Biden fan, I didn't even say anything about Biden.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1266547800092876802
Mayor of Atlanta looking strong tonight.  Folks generally don't consider mayoral experience to be as qualifying as congressman/senator/governor, but we live in interesting times. 

Beautiful speech. Not sure if she has the experience to be a veep, but she would be a great running mate.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Is hearing "Warren loses us a Senate seat" like nails on a chalkboard for anyone else? I feel like this has been addressed a hundred times, the legislature will just change the law like they've done before, and yet people who should know better like Harry Enten are bringing it up in CNN articles.

Pundits can be really superficial because their job is to break politics down into bite-size, surface-level analyses that most people can relate to. They also try to create compelling storylines and pros-and-cons in order to make it more interesting. I don't blame them either, they have tight deadlines and are under tons of pressure to put out interesting takes constantly.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

And to all Kamala Admirers: Let's face it...if she doesn't get pick for VP her Political Career is OVAH. She has no Accomplishments to run on for 2024. Vice President is her last hope to get something out of her career otherwise IMO she is tremendously overrated to me.

Failing to become the nominee for president in one cycle hasn't stopped politicians before (example: literally Joe Biden). Not to say she will, but losing out this year doesn't really close the book for good.

That's true what you say BUT on what Accomplishments will Harris run again if she doesn't get picked for Veep? Tell us! She hasn't crafted or co-sponsored any big Legislation since being elected to the Senate. Just running to become the first African-American Woman POTUS won't do the trick if you can't run on some things you have accomplished!

Well, the next election isn't until 2024. I'm guessing primary candidates will be announcing for the 2024 nomination around this time in 2023. That's three whole years for a high-profile, clearly ambitious senator to make her mark, especially if there is a Democratic president and/or Senate.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Yeah Biden should take someone from IL and it's safe Dem. No.

Swinging a potentially competitive state isn't really the main focus in a VP pick though, at least not in this day and age. The "favourite son" effect from a VP pick in such a nationalized political environment is a minor consideration at best. It's not just Duckworth, most potential VP picks aren't really going to have much of an effect on swing states.

Harris and Warren are both from extremely safe D states. Lujan Grisham may have coattails in NM, but that's not really a swing state nationally. Whitmer's coattails could help in Michigan, but Biden has consistently outpolled Trump there since early 2019--if Michigan comes down to a minor Veep effect, then Biden has probably lost the election. Demings is from Florida, but she's a congresswoman in a safe D district. Boosting turnout in Orlando may tip Florida if it's very close there (which looks likely), but she doesn't have the appeal that a statewide officeholder would have.

The two prospective picks that could tip certain states over the line are KLB and Baldwin. KLB would boost turnout in metro Atlanta (which is GA's main metro area unlike Orlando), and possibly Georgia's black belt. This is the right combination for flipping Georgia. Baldwin would solidify Biden's lead in crucial Wisconsin, but also leave a senate seat vulnerable.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Honestly, from an electoral advantage standpoint, KLB seems like the best pick. She has a unique advantage in metro Atlanta, which is one of the fastest D-trending areas in the country. Boost turnout there and the black belt, and the strong Trump support in rural white Georgia is cancelled out. She also has an obvious connection with black southerners, who could flip NC and FL too. She's also a Washington outsider, which is a disadvantage in a VP, but probably an advantage in a running mate. While Demings and Abrams are also southern black women, Demings has the baggage of being an ex-cop, while Abrams doesn't have exec experience and isn't really in contention anymore.

If only Duckworth was black, Biden would pick her in a heartbeat. A relatively young black woman veteran, who lost both her legs in combat, and went on to be a Senator from the 5th most populous state? Now that's a story that will excite people. But I get the sense that Biden feels he "owes" it to the African American community, who arguably saved his primary campaign.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

i really don't get why it's not Duckworth, i really don't see the downside to her from like, any angle

True.  Not a ton of upside with Duckworth, but just about literally no downside.  That's honestly the best you can probably get.

but she was like, a helicopter pilot who lost her legs fighting for her country, that's pretty impressive. that would really stick it to all the ppl who say Democrats aren't patriotic and sh**t

It's certainly helpful and she's the best pick when only considering do-no-harm grounds, but the (positive) electoral effect of being a veteran is greatly overstated for Democratic GE candidates. The current president likes people who weren't captured, and I'm sure he also likes people who weren't injured.

It's not really about what Trump thinks of her though, it's the voters that matter. Duckworth is a veteran who lost both her legs in combat. That in itself is a pretty strong narrative to have. And if Trump made fun of her disability, or said something to the effect of "I like people who weren't injured", oh boy. That alone would boost dem turnout.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Unrelated - is anyone here genuinely pulling for Rice?

If so, why?

I find her to be the easiest political punching bag for Trump, an embodiment of establishment status-quo Obama years neoliberalism; a pretty unpopular ideology among many Americans on both sides.

Full disclosure of bias, I'm a Demings/KLB fan, but I don't understand Rice's rise in betting markets.

I'm not pulling for Rice, though I certainly get where the appeal comes from. Most Rice supporters seem to point out her foreign policy chops. And as a Canadian, I would love for the VP to have an extensive foreign policy background; it would signal that America is serious about rebuilding its international standing and relations.

But Rice's strengths seem better suited for SoS than VP. She doesn't have any domestic policy or political experience, and I don't think it's a good idea for her first job in domestic politics to be VP.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Atlas has a weird tendency to hype Abrams up for jobs she is clearly not qualified for. I don't get the obsession.

It's not just Atlas, she's been overhyped in general ever since her Georgia gov run. Beto and Abrams were overhyped by dems in 2018 because it would be a huge milestone for either of those states to elect a non-blue dog Democrat to statewide office. Of course neither of them won, but the hype they generated gave them an unusually high level of name recognition. I think that's what it really comes down to. People remember being excited by and rooting for Stacey Abrams (as I was), and that familiarity and favorability just carried onto the Veepstakes.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Every tues we have serious election problems and every tues I weep that Stacy is not taken more seriously

Why should Stacy Abrams be taken seriously?

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Every tues we have serious election problems and every tues I weep that Stacy is not taken more seriously

Why should Stacy Abrams be taken seriously?

Why should she not?

By that logic, why should I not be considered seriously by Biden when choosing his running mate?

Proving a negative is an impossible standard. I'm asking why should Stacey Abrams be taken more seriously?

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

If Harris is picked, they will bring back the desegregation/busing thing

Meh, it probably won't make much of a difference. Might lower turnout among younger lefties (who are already a very low-turnout group), but that's about it.

I mean, if Trump had a good record on race/civil rights issues then I'm sure it could shift some votes. But this is Donald Trump we're talking about. Him attacking Harris on civil rights issues would be the dictionary definition of throwing stones from a glass house.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

I think people are overestimating how much Lujan Grisham can help with Latino outreach--she doesn't speak Spanish. The biggest advantage of a Hispanic/Latino running mate is if they can reach out to older and first generation Latinos who may not speak English or struggle with it. A running mate who can speak Spanish is a huge asset for any presidential candidate these days. But Lujan Grisham doesn't have that asset. She has a Spanish surname (at least half of it), but is that alone enough to significantly boost Latino turnout? I doubt it.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Serious question: do you think anyone on the fence is going to flip to Trump because Duckworth is VP?

No, if anything the vitriol Tucker is spewing will flip some traditionally-R veterans towards a Biden/Duckworth ticket.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

That's because Biden is a, a decent human being, and be, needed to worry about shein off black voters and anti-racist whites. Trump and fox have neither of those restraints whatsoever. The fact that she was elected attorney general and then senator of the largest state in the country is going to be subsumed by the fact that she may have slept with Willie Brown Early in her career. San Francisco radical will become a chic phrase on the Facebook again, and one can even expect perhaps some mild birtherism about her background. There's nothing there, but there wasn't anything there about Obama either and....

I hadn't heard about this, but if Harris gets picked as the running mate I'm sure this "scandal" will come up. Here's one for the guys who despite being liberal on most issues, will simply refuse to admit that sexism is an issue in American politics.

A woman studies law, gets accomplished in her field, becomes a district attorney, then attorney general, then senator, then presidential candidate, then running mate, and she had sexual relations with another politician decades ago. One of these things is not like the other.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

The Kamala Harris saga has been way overblown,  that's why people snipe at each other. If she was so good to be Veep, why did she flop so badly as a Prez candidate

I like Susan Rice better than Harris, hopefully she is picked but some dont like Rice

So Kamala Harris isn't good enough because she couldn't get elected as a presidential candidate, so Susan Rice is your pick? Someone whose highest-held elected office was student council president in high school? Man, I know people on this forum love to hate Kamala Harris, but at least judge her by standards that you yourself can stick to.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

The Kamala Harris saga has been way overblown,  that's why people snipe at each other. If she was so good to be Veep, why did she flop so badly as a Prez candidate

I like Susan Rice better than Harris, hopefully she is picked but some dont like Rice

So Kamala Harris isn't good enough because she couldn't get elected as a presidential candidate, so Susan Rice is your pick? Someone whose highest-held elected office was student council president in high school? Man, I know people on this forum love to hate Kamala Harris, but at least judge her by standards that you yourself can stick to.

You dont live in California,  she does nothing for the homeless on Skid Row, I can understand Feinstein,  but both other them never come down to LA and talk about the homeless issue on Skid Row.

Sacramento,  SF LA, have the most homeless than any other region in the country, due to the influx of nonimmigrant migrating from the cold Midwest to Cali for warmth in the winter time

You originally implied that she's not a good VP pick because she lost the presidential primary. I pointed out that Susan Rice, your preferred pick, has never even run for office. Now you're bringing up homelessness, which I believe you on, but has nothing to do with the double standard of your earlier comments.

If Harris failing to do well in the presidential primaries proves that she is a weak candidate, what suggests to you that someone who has never run for office would be better?

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

The Kamala Harris saga has been way overblown,  that's why people snipe at each other. If she was so good to be Veep, why did she flop so badly as a Prez candidate

I like Susan Rice better than Harris, hopefully she is picked but some dont like Rice

So Kamala Harris isn't good enough because she couldn't get elected as a presidential candidate, so Susan Rice is your pick? Someone whose highest-held elected office was student council president in high school? Man, I know people on this forum love to hate Kamala Harris, but at least judge her by standards that you yourself can stick to.

I feel like, for Kamala folks, we have to be either totally for Harris/fawning over her as the VP pick, or we hate her.  There's definitely a middle ground.  I don't hate her, and I think there are a lot worse choices out there, but that doesn't mean I'm enthused by her/she's my first choice.  It also doesn't mean it will affect my vote one way or the other, though. 

I'm not really a Kamala person, I think she's the best pick but I'm not a huge Kamala supporter by any means. I was simply pointing out that it seems Harris and Rice were being held to vastly different standards by the user I replied to.

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Crappy thread. It’s possible to respect both Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren. It is possible to believe both would be fine vice presidents. What even is all this?

Because we've made over 200 pages worth of posts on veepstakes, something that is pure speculation at this point, and something nobody other than Joe Biden really has any control over. All there really is to do is talk about a handful of prospective picks, and that inevitably leads to petty arguments over minor differences. I've barely made a 100 posts This is only my 99th post on this forum (stalked for a long time before though) and even I'm starting to get tired of this thread lol. But yeah this is just the worst tendency of political junkies (including myself), arguing endlessly over petty disagreements, to the point that it starts getting personal.