New Mexico - Montana Regional Bill

[Peter]

I open debate on the following legislation, originally proposed by Senator WMS and now sponsored by Senator Sam Spade

The New Mexico - Montana Regional Bill

Clause I

The State of New Mexico shall henceforth be located in the Pacific Region.

Clause II

The State of Montana shall henceforth be located in the Midwest Region.

Clause III

This bill shall take effect following the next Regional election upon approval by the Senate.

[Peter]

I'll try to address some of the issues here:

1. The Senate must consent or give permission for Region changes, and it can give pre-emptive consent also.
2. The Regions involved must themselves agree; The Constitution does not specify how they give this consent, and it is generally left to them to work this out for themselves. Failure to consent scuppers the transfer.
3. The States involved in the transfer may veto their transfer and effectively scupper the transfer.

[Peter]

In Article 4, Section 2, Clause 3 of the new Constitution, consent of the Regions means just the elected officials, not the consent of the whole of the Region's population.  Or is it just purposely vague there to give the Region authority to have or to not have a plebescite in the Region as a whole.

The short answer is that it is purposely vague.

In the Mideast I had planned to introduce a proposition dealing with State transfer, and I might yet, in it I envisaged a Region wide vote and in concert with a State vote on the matter. Each Regions should make its own arrangements either through Law or some sort of convention.

We'll get onto amendments tomorrow.

[Peter]

The motion to reject this amendment is denied: The issue of State transfers is dealt with by this bill, adding State transfers to it does not cause it address divorced subjects.

Clause IV
The Senate approves the transfer of the states of Virginia, Kentucky, and Oklahoma to the Southeast Region.

The vote on this amendment is hereby called to order.

All Senators, please vote Aye/Nay/Abstain

[Peter]

I still stand by my personal view that transferring states between the Pacific and the Midwest is entirely different than transferring states between the Mideast and the Southeast, given that one has gubernatorial approval and the other does not, and that Cosmo Kramer's amendment should really be placed into its own bill.

I agree, however, I am against using the broad, discretionary powers granted to the Presiding officer over rejecting amendments unless it is genuinely necessary.

[Peter]

Gabu and I were talking and now I am curious to see what would happen if I were to introduce this filibuster amendment:

"Clause XXX: Homosexual acts within 100 feet of a Christian church in Atlasia shall be considered a crime against humanity."

Clearly this Amendment has nothing to do with the subject of State transfers; It is thus rejected under the SPR on Multiple Issue Bills.

I'd also point out that it would be rabidly unconstitutional on so many levels.

[Peter]

With 3 votes for and 7 votes against, the Cosmo Kramer amendment has failed.

[Peter]

I'd have to agree with Sam: Give them a day or so to see if they can come to some sort of amicable comprimise, and then if they do, hopefully approve it. If not, then we should move on - but we should certainly let them try at this point.

[Peter]

http://www.progressnj.com/atlaswiki/index.php/Second_Article_IV

That is the pertenant article. I believe that Article IV Section 2 Clause 3 is interpreted as the governors agreeing to the terms.

Interpretation is that the Region decides on its own what is the best method of consent for it: i.e. Governor's approval or full public vote.

[Peter]

The people in the states should vote (yes there's only 1 in each state) to decide if both of them want to move.

Thats what the clause says.

[Peter]

The voting is to strike Clause III from the bill.

Clause III shall be stricken and replaced with the following:

Clause IIIThis bill shall take effect immediately on July 1, 2005 or once approved by the residents of New Mexico and Montana by plebiscite and by the Midwest and Pacific Regions, whichever occurs at a later time.

Bolding emphasis added.

[Peter]

For those of us horribly confused, here is the bill as it stands:

Clause I

The State of New Mexico shall henceforth be located in the Pacific Region.

Clause II

The State of Montana shall henceforth be located in the Midwest Region.

Clause III

This bill shall take effect immediately on July 1, 2005 or once approved by the residents of New Mexico and Montana by plebiscite and by the Midwest and Pacific Regions, whichever occurs at a later time.