Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[BlueSwan]

I wonder if all the hideous people online in India and China and South Africa and Serbia and Kenya and Brazil and yes in the United States and other countries too who have been engaging in whataboutism and “both sides” and ‘but muh revolutionary support from the Soviet Union’ have enough self-awareness to feel deeply ashamed by now?

I wouldn’t count on it. They are probably doubling down instead. These are dark dark times. Elections in Hungary and Serbia were disasterous. We should all fear the french election.

[BlueSwan]

Speaking of which... new polling numbers from Germany (Forschungsgruppe Wahlen for ZDF, released today) are available.


Opinion on further intensifying sanctions on Russia
Support 77%
Oppose 18%
Don't know 5%

Opinion on stopping oil and gas imports from Russia
Immediately, even if it leads to shortages 28%
Only when the energy supply is secured 54%
No embargo at all 14%

Is the German government doing enough to make the country independent of of Russian oil and gas?
Yes 37%
No 52%
Don't know 11%

Opinion on temporary speed limit on highways to reduce fuel consumption
Support 25%
Support a permanent speed limit 50%
Oppose 24%

Increasing costs and prices are is in many areas a big problem for the wealth in Germany
Yes 73%
No 26%

It is a problem for me personally
Yes 34%
No 65%

The aid Ukraine is receiving from Germany is...
Appropriate 50%
Too little 37%
Too much 7%
Don't know 6%

Can Germany handle the many refugees from Ukraine?
Yes 84%
No 12%

So this isn’t unique to Germany, but 82% ban Russian gas imports, 72% but not if it affects my life in any way makes me want to tear my hair out.

That’s people for you. Fact is most ordinary people don’t have much in the way of spare cash to burn for the sake of Ukraine.

Well, 65% are apparently unaffected personally by rising costs, so *shrug*

Yes. Regardless of the fact that some people on here like to pretend that the working class or middle class is "suffering", that is mostly a ridiculous statement. Most working class/middle class people in northwestern Europe have solid personal finances, and while the current price hikes sucks, it is pretty far from economic disasterous for very many at all.

[BlueSwan]

Yes. Regardless of the fact that some people on here like to pretend that the working class or middle class is "suffering", that is mostly a ridiculous statement. Most working class/middle class people in northwestern Europe have solid personal finances, and while the current price hikes sucks, it is pretty far from economic disasterous for very many at all.

I'm sure this will be a very popular political message.

Obviously it wouldn't be, but that doesn't mean that it isn't true.

[BlueSwan]

Looks like stiffer US sanctions coming, which might hit larger swathes of the Russian economy than those thus far:

White House press secretary Jen Psaki said Monday that there would be additional sanctions against Russia as punishment for Moscow’s continued invasion of Ukraine. Psaki did not specify what those sanctions would be but said the Biden administration was “continuing to review” its options and would probably have more information in the coming days.

Psaki also noted that the chairwoman of the Russian central bank had recently warned that the sanctions will “begin to increasingly affect the real sectors of the economy” in Russia and that “the period during which the [Russian] economy can live on reserves is finite.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/18/russia-ukraine-war-news-mariupol-live-updates/#link-5ME5SIA755CJDDZN3UYK7GXJOU

Why haven’t we already implemented every sanction imaginable? What on earth are Western governments holding out for? Come on, people.

It is to still have the opportunity to impose even more sanctions, gradually pressuring the Russians more and more.

[BlueSwan]

Highest point in Moldova is 430 meters above sea level. Yeah, hardly mountainous.

[BlueSwan]

German parliament passes a resolution in favour of supplying Ukraine with "heavy weapons". The focus of the resolution lies on replenishing Eastern European NATO armies with German arms if these countries are supplying Ukraine with heavy weapons of Soviet or Russian production, but the resolution also does not exclude direct exports of heavy weapons of German production to Ukraine.

Resolution was supported by SPD, CDU/CSU, Greens, and FDP.
AfD and Left opposed it.
586 voted in favour, 100 against, with seven abstentions.


https://twitter.com/business/status/1519603855838916614

Horseshoe theory in action!

AfD really likes Putin. Left likes Putin less, but is pacifist and hates America (insert whataboutism about Iraq war).

This is mirrored around the western world, really. The far right loves Putin and "strong men" leaders in general, while the far left hates the US/NATO.

The far right are really a bunch of fascists and I wouldn't expect anything better from them, but it really frustrates me how misguided many on the far left are. They should ing know better at this point. Even here in Denmark, our main far left party keeps insisting that NATO is bad, they just cannot admit that they have been wrong on this.

[BlueSwan]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/eu-russian-oil-ban-hits-131311689.html

Hungary looks set to put a stop to the European Union’s ban on Russian oil imports after leader Viktor Orbán compared the proposal to an atomic bomb.

Screw the EU then and each nation should unilaterally implement their sanctions .

Better yet. Kick Hungary out of the EU. It's high time. What a mistake that there are no official provisions for doing so.

[BlueSwan]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/eu-russian-oil-ban-hits-131311689.html

Hungary looks set to put a stop to the European Union’s ban on Russian oil imports after leader Viktor Orbán compared the proposal to an atomic bomb.

Screw the EU then and each nation should unilaterally implement their sanctions .

Better yet. Kick Hungary out of the EU. It's high time. What a mistake that there are no official provisions for doing so.

Why do they have single members vetos?
Who looks at Poland-Lithuania and says ‘yeah, that’s a good idea’?

After the cold war ended there was a feeling of historical duty to include the eastern european countries in the western world, including the European Union. Infact, many people argued that it was happening too slowly. At the time the liberal idea that everybody wants liberal democracy was prevailing, so I don't think anybody seriously thought that a country that became part of the EU would suddenly go down an authoritarian rule. After all, back in the day Spain and Greece had been admitted to the EU (ECC) just a few years after becoming functional democracies.

But yeah, not having protocols for kicking out member states that abolish liberal democracy today seems utterly insane.

[BlueSwan]

What’s the deal with these leftists and “realists” calling for diplomacy with Russia in the name of “peace?” It’s clear that we’re past the point of no return with Putin and the blame lies primarily—no, solely—on his shoulders.

F—k rewarding the aggressor. Kick the Russians out of all of Ukraine.

Yes. It seems like the "realists" are so caught up in the framework of their theory that they cannot accept that sometimes the explanation for war is that there is a powerhungry/insane dictator. No no no, they HAVE to believe that it is the fault of NATO for expanding eastwards. Utter nonsense. Even Mearsheimer insisted that Putin would never try to take Kiev.

The leftists are easier to understand, although they are arguably even more detached from reality. Part of it is misguided utopian thinking (pacifism), part of it is their deep hatred of "american imperialism" that obscures their ability to think clearly.

EDIT: Here in Denmark, our most extreme leftist party in parliament has taken the borderline absurd position that NATO is bad and we should leave, but that now is NOT a good time to leave. Oh really? When is a good time then?

[BlueSwan]

Funny thing is that before the war not that many rated him (inside Ukraine or outside it)

Yeah. His actions - or rather inactions - in the Trump-Ukraine-blackmail scandal were less than impressive for sure.