new england....1976 and 2005

[dazzleman]

1976
Massachusetts
Rhode Island
Maine
Connecticut
Vermont
New Hampshire

2005
Massachusetts
Rhode Island
Vermont
Connecticut
Maine
New Hampshire

As you can see, not much change relative to each other, though they have moved to the left of the rest of the country.

In 1976, you had Massachusetts voting the same way as Alabama.  Clearly, there has been a major political realignment since then, as that result is unimaginable today except in an extreme landslide.

[dazzleman]

d-man, id argue that vermont is currently more liberal than both mass and ri.

You could be right.  It's a different type of liberal.  Massachusetts and Rhode Island, particularly Rhode Island, still have a large number of 'lunch-pail' Democrats -- old line Tip O'Neill style Demcrats who are economically liberal and socially at least moderate, maybe a little conservative.

Vermont seems to be much more socially liberal.  It consists of a lot of out-of-touch flakes who have fallen off the grid, and choose to live in a museum.  Don't get me wrong; I love visiting the state.  It is beautiful; but I'd never want to live there.

[dazzleman]

There#s one slight problem with that... Vermont has a higher percentage born in the state than... say... Connecticut or New Hampshire. ie Vermont hasn't (primarily) changed due to immigration, but to realignment. In fact, New Hampshire would probably be a lot more like Vermont if it wasn't for the many upper-class immigrants from Massachusetts.

The interesting thing is that Vermont is a far poorer state than Massachusetts, yet its liberalism seems to be more socially based than economically based.

Clearly, there has been a major realignment.  People are voting more on social than economic issues now, though as I said, Massachusetts and Rhode Island, in particular, still have a lot of the old-line economic liberals.  Vermont seems to be an example of an inbred state that is largely imploding due to isolation from reality and willful separation from the modern world.  In its own way, it seems to be becoming like the old pre-civil rights south.

[dazzleman]

There#s one slight problem with that... Vermont has a higher percentage born in the state than... say... Connecticut or New Hampshire. ie Vermont hasn't (primarily) changed due to immigration, but to realignment. In fact, New Hampshire would probably be a lot more like Vermont if it wasn't for the many upper-class immigrants from Massachusetts.

The interesting thing is that Vermont is a far poorer state than Massachusetts, yet its liberalism seems to be more socially based than economically based.

Clearly, there has been a major realignment.  People are voting more on social than economic issues now, though as I said, Massachusetts and Rhode Island, in particular, still have a lot of the old-line economic liberals.  Vermont seems to be an example of an inbred state that is largely imploding due to isolation from reality and willful separation from the modern world.  In its own way, it seems to be becoming like the old pre-civil rights south.

How is Vermont imploding? How is it like the pre-Civil Rights South? Are there lynchings? Do people live with the threat of armed mobs and riots? Do we have Vermonters threatening to leave the Union? Also, here you describe Vermont as inbred and isolated, yet in other threads you have described it as full of immigrants from the urban NE. Which is it?

Whoa....I said 'in its own way' it's like the pre-civil rights south.  No, none of the things you describe -- lynchings, riots, etc. -- aren't happening, thankfully. 

But there was more to the pre-civil rights south than that.  There was a willful rejection of reality, a rejection of 'big bidness' and those sorts of evil northern influences that could have brought a degree of economic prosperity.  Vermont seems to be moving in that direction.

The inbred state is self-imposed and mental, not actually physical.  It can consist either of native Vermonters or those who move from out of state seeking that isolation from reality.

Don't get me wrong.  I love Vermont and love to visit there.  But politically it's a mess.  And the economy there is pretty poor, partly because it is very hostile to business.  It seems to largely consist of people in the southern part of the state who brought their money in from elsewhere, and a seasonal quasi-tourist economy.  It truly is like taking a step back in time, and while that is very quaint for visitors, there is always a price to be paid for inordinately trying to preserve the past.

[dazzleman]

Under what measurements is the Vermont economy poor? According to the Census Bureau, the poverty rate there is lower there than in the United States as a whole, retail sales per capita are higher, while median income is roughly the same as the US, so people are earning the same as elsewhere, not just bringing money from New York or wherever. Vermont is somewhat isolated, being a rural state, but not nearly as isolated as most Republican-dominated rural locations. The urban NE is just a few hours away. If you want to see really inbred and isolated in America, check out West Virginia, Mississippi, or the Dakotas.

I had read that it was one of the countries poorer states, just above some of the deep southern states.  Have you visited Vermont?